Gold Cup 2009 (was: Denman)

Given that Paul Nicholls has categorically stated that Kauto Star needs to be ridden by Ruby, then he should insist that Ruby rides at Cheltenham. If that is so, and it does follow logically, then Denman will have to be ridden by someone else should he line up in March. It therefore makes no real sense to put Ruby on Denman at the weekend, when his big race pilot could be getting acquainted with him instead. Of course the flip side of this is that PN simply talks a lot of guff and should be ignored when he speaks publicly.
 
rorydelargy said:
It therefore makes no real sense to put Ruby on Denman at the weekend, when his big race pilot could be getting acquainted with him instead.
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So Ruby misses out on a plum ride just because he won`t be onboard at Cheltenham? I seem to remember Pat Eddery still rode Commander-in-Chief in all his prep runs for the Derby even though it was obvious he`d be on Tenby come Epsom.

This is one gigantic non-story that the racing press have over-egged because there is little to talk about right now.
 
Exactly. In this race last year didn't Thomas ride Denman to get further acquainted with him. I recall Ruby riding in the race but on one of Donald McCain's.
 
Denman looks about as straightforward a horse as you can get imho,and any top rider would not have a problem getting "on" with it.


If it was mine I'd have Ruby on whenever possible.
 
This is one gigantic non-story that the racing press have over-egged because there is little to talk about right now.
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If it wasn't for Brave Inca, I think I'd have swallowed my tongue from boredom this last month.
 
Same situation as Jimmy Fortune. It's very harsh but at the end of the day it's a business and business decisions need to be made.
 
Sam has won a few top races on Denman, not just one, and I can see no reason to jock him off the horse whatever, so I can't see where a 'business decision' comes into it.

If he has been out of the press headlamps since Xmas and moreover has not fallen off any lately, all of which will be good for his morale, all the more reason why come March he should get his ride on Denman back, given Ruby will be needed to help Kauto!

The press are just latching onto the situation because they like to whip up a bit of 'human drama' - they think that's what we want to read - and the bookies have followed them. It's unpleasant to watch imo and irresponsible. There is plenty going on of great importance in racing - ie behind the scenes racing politics - which the racing journos could and should be occupying themselves with, but that might be hard work compared with whipping up a storm in a teacup over Denman in March. Just sad their conjectures are probably undermining Sam's confidence still further.
 
exactly. nothing to talk about really. stable jockey takes ride (if racing is on, that is), and I guess everybody on here would prefer ruby to sam on his own horse - well, I would at least! - and NOTHING set for cheltenham which still is weeks away last time I checked my calendar, and betting only reflects funny ideas of some, not reality.
 
The RP is now reporting that AP is 2-5 to ride Denman . I recall some forumite saying last year ( Cantoris? ) that HF had considered AP riding the horse last year .

Unless Exotic Dancer is being diverted to the Ryanair or gets completely mullered by Neptune on Sunday - surely AP would be expected , if not contractually required , to ride him instead ?
 
No Ardross, McCoy is contracted by JP not Jonjo. Exotic is not his horse.

There is a gentleman's agreement in place that he will ride Jonjo's as and when available, but the reality is, no one will stand in his way riding the best horse in the Gold Cup.

I can't see Thomas being at Nicholls' next season. It's a funny yard and Paul wouldn't know loyalty if it bit him in the arse.
 
I just said that - he is not contractually required to ride ED but would probably be expected to - especially as Sir R Ogden does have a habit of changing jockeys and it might cause dissension .
 
Ardross said:
I just said that - he is not contractually required to ride ED but would probably be expected to - especially as Sir R Ogden does have a habit of changing jockeys and it might cause dissension .
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Ogden might not be one of the games nicer folk, but I'd be amazed if anyone penalised McCoy for trying to get on Denman. He's ridden ED enough times behind KS for him to have little difficulty making the case that he's given it his best shot etc In any event, McCoy still remains top jock, would Ogden be silly enough to rule out using him ever again because of ED? I doubt it. McCoy might very well be the difference between winning and losing for the owner at a later date. Mind you I said would he be 'silly enough' perhaps I should have asked whether he'd be stubborn enough
 
Flame said:
I can't see Thomas being at Nicholls' next season.
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Thinking the same thing, Flame. He is taking, and winning, on a lot of outside rides at the moment. Wouldn't be surprised if he jumped before he was pushed. The odd snide comment still slips into PN's interviews, which seem rather immature and with other things that I heard last year, disenchantment seems to have set in all round.
 
Flame said:
Nick Scholfield or Christian Williams
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The owner is apparently a big Christian Williams fan, so that would make sense.

I agree with Suny, I see no reason to jock Sam off Denman in favour of AP, the horse doesn't need any 'help' if he is fit enough. In fact, AP going for a Gold Cup is just what I would NOT like to see on a horse with a heart problem, sorry to say, brilliant though he is!
 
If he has still has heart trouble (which I doubt) jockey selection will be the least of his worries 3m2f around Cheltenham.
 
If a person has ever had 'heart trouble' then it's always there, caution has to be exercised; and the same for a dog, according to every vet I've dealt with. I don't see that a horse is any different. And coming up the hill in the GC is about the most demanding thing you can ask of a horse, short of the GN run-in.

Regarding Ogden, from a few posts back: iirc he used to have most if not all his horses with Nicky H. I believe there was some altercation over running plans for Marlborough when he reached the veteran stage, tho I'm only going on hints etc! Shortly after that Ogden had several other trainers. It would not surprise me at all if he were capabable of 'harbouring a grudge'.
 
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Ogden has had numerous trainers over the years . I think he used to but no longer has horses with Henry Daly and Venetia Williams for example .
 
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Robert Ogden tends to keep his horses spread among a range of trainers; if he ever had a main trainer, then that epithet applied to either Gordon Richards or Andy Turnell. He's certainly fallen out with a few trainers in his time.
 
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