Gold Cup 2009 (was: Denman)

I don't ever read his column and I never read Ruby's column in The Cork Examiner either.
 
EC1 said:
that still doesn't explain the loss Flame

Denman never looked like the same horse and has run as flat as a pancake today

I actually felt scared for the horse in running...it crossed my mind that he might drop dead...I actually hope they never run him again.
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agree with those two statements - though if hed run like a Pancake today.... :<3:


never looked happy to me - but theres a month yet - and there was no point pushing when MaddeBeur was going so much better.
 
Listen, I don't believe anything any trainer says to be honest - if you listen to all of them almost every horse in every race is going to win!

Why would they tell us anything anyway? :p
 
As I said on the other thread, Denman clouted the last and corkscrewed, and almost came down - it was only visible in one of the re-plays, about 15 mins ago. He was out on his feet

The problem to me is, they know now that they can't set those punishing early fractions on him like they used to and he may no longer have the finishing kick he had in the Hennessy. It's goign to be hard to win at top level with him now without risking his heart going again. Big problem for trainer/jockey, as regards tactics. His confidence will have been knocked after today too, possibly

PS Very sorry to hear aobut Joe Lively, in hindsight I suppose today was a race too soon!
 
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rorydelargy said:
I've been making that point ever since Kadarann won the Game Spirit. Remember that?
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Remember it well, though I wasn't on the forum then! Not doubting that you pointed it out then BTW.

Generally like listening to Harry Findlay actually, but he was talking a lot of shite on ATR as well this morning.
 
I disagree about Findlay today; and if people had listened to what he was saying they would have laid off their bets on Denman today pdq. He also said that none of the connections had backed him.

Anyone who didn't hear the interview should try to find it and listen to it - I expect atr will repeat it tomorrow morning. It was extrememly informative, and *for the first time* emphasised just how near the brink Denman has been. Imo just as with KS's problems last year, the yard has been keeping a bit quiet about how serious the setback was
 
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He also said Denman had too much weight in the Hennessy. He said Noland would need the run at Down Royal. He even said Sam Thomas was his number two and nothing would change. He's wrong more often than he is right.
 
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I suppose that is one of the drawbacks of always being available to the media - you words come back to bite you! Esp in comparison to trainers who don't say much (or aren't asked much)
 
If you are out there Warbler...what did you make of the time for Madison?...the 4.00 race was a useful truly run affair

Madison ran 387.69 seconds....Strawberry rated 128....398.80

11 seconds has to equate to about 50/55lbs would you say at 3 miles?

they both carried the same weight which would give a speed figure of 178/183

Maybe Madison is the new champion?????
 
Gold Cup

7/4 Kauto Star (General)
4/1 Denman Tote, Paddy Power, Skybet, Ladbrokes)
7/1 Neptune Collognes (Bet365, Paddy Power)
10/1 Madison Du Berlais (Coral, Ladbrokes)
16/1 Exotic Dancer (VCbet, William Hill)
20/1 Barber Shop (General)
25/1 Albertas Run 25/1 (Stan James, Ladbrokes)
33/1 Star De Mohaison (General)
 
12/1 with William Hill was taken after the race. I agree that 10/1 is a bet. I want to be against the front two, that's for sure.
 
Ardross said:
Is this a wind up ? :lol:

Denman didn't jump well from word go . To me he was never really travelling and M de B left him for dead . The idea that Ruby was to blame for his disappointing jumping is, IMO, laughable .

As for the others what the hell was Alberta's Run doing running on that ground - Trabolgan has gone and should be retired . Joe L ran a stinker and Niche Market was never going to be good enough .

Has to be said M de B is a much improved horse and jumped really well today but I fear the old cliche they never come back applies to Denman .

This is looking like an open GC . I love KS but his worst efforts have come at Cheltenham - he looks the most likely winner to me ( though I think Exotic Dancer looks very good ew with Jonjo and the horse both in so much better form ) . Somehow unless ED bombs in the Irish Hennessy I doubt Ap would be all that keen to ride Denman - Sam T must have a great chance of getting the ride back.
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Have to agree, that was not denman of old first run or not, and trabolgan please retire him.
 
the clock says it weren't a bad run..not as bad as it looked initially anyway....maybe Denman needed to be at his very best today to beat Madison...who looks like the new star...if he can translate it to Cheltenham
 
Madison Du Berlais is 0/5 around Cheltenham including finishing third in the Grand Annual off of 129 and sixth in the Boylesports Gold Cup off 133 when getting 16lbs from Exotic Dancer.

All of a sudden 10/1 looks a criminal bet....
 
So we are to believe that at a track where he is 0/5 he can overturn the 17 1/2 lengths he was beaten by Exotic Dancer when receiving 18lb. There is improvement and taking a leap of faith...
 
i did say if he translates it to Cheltenham

he has achieved a top figure today...no doubt about that...the handicap chase was a very truly run affair and they have hammered it by 11 seconds...no mean feat

his record is that of an improving horse..peaking at the right time?
 
Very hard to know what to make of the horse. I had given up on him going into this season. I'd be interested on what figure you arrive at.
 
Gearoid said:
So we are to believe that at a track where he is 0/5 he can overturn the 17 1/2 lengths he was beaten by Exotic Dancer when receiving 18lb. There is improvement and taking a leap of faith...
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bloomin eck...want to go back a bit further in time?? :lol:

he is a little bit better than he was in 2006...thats obvious

he clearly improved to win the henessey..you seem to think horses can't improve that much ...why?
 
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