Gold Cup (Ascot)

Cantoris said:
It should be noted, this is a specialist group 1. I'd like to see him win an Irish St. Leger before I bow to Segal.
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It's not a specialist Group 1. It's a much more prestigous and harder to win than the Irish Leger.
 
LUKE said:
I remember ridiculing my brother over that.
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I'll hold my hands up and say if you went back through the threads, I also thought he was smoking something. But ROP stays well and that made all the difference today.
 
Was convinced I would not enjoy the race without Yeats. But despite myself was glued to it as usual. :)

Hindsight is such a wonderful thing. Cannot believe I did not back that, and that it went off at such a big price. Plenty of non stayers in there.

Might AOA be back next year or do we think they will be bored with keeping an older horse in training?
 
He'll have to be back! The only Group race he has won is the Lingfield Derby trial, so I'd imagine he'll have to be winning a few races before they would think of retiring him. Maybe they will sell him?
 
Hamm said:
Dunguib needs a bog to look good. Winter ground should never be graced with Rite of Passage after that. He could get an awful mark for Melbourne but why not.
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That's not true about Dunguib needing a bog-after he won at Punchestown Weld said he was a Melbourne Cup horse -and he could be if Weld trained him.I also believe that Fenton found him,made him and won at a festival with him so he is entitled to keep the horse.
 
Opinions, opinions!

If Dunguib was yours, what would you do with him and who would train him?

I thought he was shown up by the end of the jumps - good but not top of the tree.
 
I don't think he'd be any good at Group Level at all on the flat Cantoris - might be a different case with Hurricane Fly but others better positioned to comment.
 
Hamm said:
I don't think he'd be any good at Group Level at all on the flat Cantoris
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I'd probably agree with you on that but if you said to me you'd seen in your crystal ball that ROP won a group one, even a specialist one, then I'd have asked you to put the pint down as you'd had enough. I'm not sure anymore you could say Dunguib shouldn't be tried on the flat. They'd need to make plenty of use of him.
 
Cantoris said:
It should be noted, this is a specialist group 1. I'd like to see him win an Irish St. Leger before I bow to Segal.
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Excuse me? What part of the Ascot Gold Cup (possibly THE most prestigious staying race in the racing calendar) is not a Group 1??
 
The style of Dunguib's bumper win at Cheltenham definitely suggested to me he could do well on the flat. He showed a kick to scoot clear that day that almost any flat horse would be proud of.
 
Shadow Leader said:
Excuse me? What part of the Ascot Gold Cup (possibly THE most prestigious staying race in the racing calendar) is not a Group 1??
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I never said it wasn't a group 1. It deserves to be a group 1. It's a fine race. However, it is one of only two group 1s run over 2m4f, the other being the Cadran. I'm open to correction but is there any group 1, other than these, run beyond 2m? That last four furlongs is a killer and it makes it a specialist race. It's like Cuff Link winning the Queen Alexandra. He was suited by 2m6f and he only got it once a year. Six would turn into the straight together but there'd be a furlong between them at the line. All I'm saying is that a group 1 win in the Gold Cup does not mean you would win any other Group 1. The sprinters, milers and middle distance horses have plenty of group 1s to prove themselves in but those wanting an extreme distance get limited chances. As I said, I'd like to see ROP win a group 1 over 1m6f (the Irish Leger) like Yeats did (over 1m4f). The latter proved he was able to mix it with the best over any trip from 1m4f to 2m4f. The long distance equivalent of Sea The Stars doing the Guineas/Derby double.
 
It is a great race - probably one of my favourites of the year . What a terrific run by A of A in defeat and Dermot Weld revealed that Rite of Passage's grand-dam was Ascot legend Dahlia on ATR which I was not aware of .

ASk ran well but plainly did not stay, Manifest did not stay but never had a chance under yet another Queally shocker . Darley Sun was disappointing - another fecked by Godolphin ?. I mean who would have thought Arc third Cavalryman would be unplaced in his four starts this year.
 
Cantoris said:
I never said it wasn't a group 1. It deserves to be a group 1. It's a fine race. However, it is one of only two group 1s run over 2m4f, the other being the Cadran. I'm open to correction but is there any group 1, other than these, run beyond 2m? That last four furlongs is a killer and it makes it a specialist race. It's like Cuff Link winning the Queen Alexandra. He was suited by 2m6f and he only got it once a year. Six would turn into the straight together but there'd be a furlong between them at the line. All I'm saying is that a group 1 win in the Gold Cup does not mean you would win any other Group 1. The sprinters, milers and middle distance horses have plenty of group 1s to prove themselves in but those wanting an extreme distance get limited chances. As I said, I'd like to see ROP win a group 1 over 1m6f (the Irish Leger) like Yeats did (over 1m4f). The latter proved he was able to mix it with the best over any trip from 1m4f to 2m4f. The long distance equivalent of Sea The Stars doing the Guineas/Derby double.
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Why is that necessary ?

Sagaro , Buckskin, Le Moss and Double Trigger were magnificent Group 1 stayers but although Sagaro won a 1m 7f race otherwise I don't think any of them won over shorter at the top level .

The Levmoss , Ardross and Yeats type of stayer is a rare beast but does not mean they are necessarily greater horses than the other 2m 4f champs.
 
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