Greyhound Racing

Ian_Davies said:
Regarding this last sentence, I just think social demographics are changing and fewer people identify with the labels we perhaps grew up with.
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I think the demographic has moved as I think working class reffered to a generation who worked hard and just got by and lived fairly simple lives. Now that class of people are more the benefit street and people topped up with universal credit for working part time.

I think in this day and age if you work hard and put in all the hours and with half decent with money management I.e you don't have any majorly out of control vices then I think you've propelled yourself into a middle class and a very decent standard of living. You may feel no better off because it's a more consumerist society. I.e if you're just an employee or a worker you can basically work your tit's off and you might have a slightly nicer house, nicer car, nicer holiday and more "stuff" than those on benefit street but I think most people in that situation are running as hard as they can just to stay in the exact same spot. Like a hamster wheel of doom there's always something coming up.

I work in a foundry my dad worked there before me and back in his day the car park would've been full of labourers cars old Fiestas, minis, escorts. Now the car park is rammed with Bmws, mercs, land rovers new hybrids cars with values of 30- 70k all owned by labourers. I've always found it strange to have that much car sat outside the Foundry all week as you're working 70 hours a week to pay for it. I'd rather work less hours have a more modest motor and be out and about in it every weekend.
 
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Expectations are unrealistic and successive tory governments, particularly since 2008, aimed to put working class people back in their box.

The major conglomerates are doing their bidding, forcing up prices unnecessarily because they want 'our' money.

There is absolutely no need, for example, for energy prices to be as high as they are but someone high up the food chain decided to hike the prices and work on the assumption that we would get used to them over time and adjust our spending elsewhere.

Many times I have envisaged a meeting at board level where one underling has said, 'People walking to work are stopping off at coffee shops and sending four or five quid on a coffee. They'll probably so the same thing on the way home and, who knows, maybe at their lunch break. That's £12-£15 disposable income per day, around £250 per month. We could get a lot of that money if we hike our prices and let them choose which coffees to miss out on." And someone further up has said, 'Great idea, let's do that.'

No one will ever convince me that a car that cost around £20k five years ago should suddenly cost £35k because they swapped an ICE for a battery. It's rank profiteering.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Expectations are unrealistic and successive tory governments, particularly since 2008, aimed to put working class people back in their box.
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Can't agree with that Maurice. I've been a Shop steward over the last couple of years never really wanted to do it but ended up taking it on. I'm probably the most right leaning Conservative union guy around. Out of the 2 realistic choices we have in the vote the Labour Party or the Labour party as its been for as long as I can remember is not for the working man.

Aside from the corrupt, bent and completely out of touch politicians the Tory party look after the rich but that's not the worst idea as usually it's rich people who pay the poor. Squeeze the rich the shit just flows downhill. I'm no political expert and don't pretend to understand the economy but speaking from experience I'm as working class as you get spent most of my life labouring as my dad did before me and ive always been better off under Tory rule. My dad probably went through his toughest times under Thatcher as he'd just bought a house when the interest rates sky rocketed to around 15% and when the poll tax came in. I wasn't really old enough to have taken it all in at the time so people who went through that may well have a different view but I stand by the opinion that the working man however bizarre it seems is better off under the torys.
 
Danny said:
Can't agree with that Maurice. I've been a Shop steward over the last couple of years never really wanted to do it but ended up taking it on. I'm probably the most right leaning Conservative union guy around. Out of the 2 realistic choices we have in the vote the Labour Party or the Labour party as its been for as long as I can remember is not for the working man.

Aside from the corrupt, bent and completely out of touch politicians the Tory party look after the rich but that's not the worst idea as usually it's rich people who pay the poor. Squeeze the rich the shit just flows downhill. I'm no political expert and don't pretend to understand the economy but speaking from experience I'm as working class as you get spent most of my life labouring as my dad did before me and ive always been better off under Tory rule. My dad probably went through his toughest times under Thatcher as he'd just bought a house when the interest rates sky rocketed to around 15% and when the poll tax came in. I wasn't really old enough to have taken it all in at the time so people who went through that may well have a different view but I stand by the opinion that the working man however bizarre it seems is better off under the torys.
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Historically, yes, the working class in the UK has ended up better off under the Tories. But that’s been a relatively recent thing, Danny. Thatcher sold off council houses - without replacing them - to create working class ownership of homes. That wasn’t necessarily a bad thing either.

But the economic tragedy is that those bribes, alongside unfunded tax cuts, has contributed to a massive historical national debt. That a Labour government has inherited and somehow gets the blame for.
 
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Like I've said Len normally I don't discuss politics i've always agreed with the view it doesn't matter who you vote for as the government always gets in. I'm fairly clueless about it all and I wouldn't be able to say what created the national debt. But then most countries seem to owe a trillion or so but I've never been sure who to. I saw a comedy routine about it once by Kevin Mcbride in which he said Greece had the right idea. It's worth a watch.

I thought the country ran up a lot of debt under Blair ? I've seen him in a few interviews in recent years and thought he was talking a lot of sense more sense than I've heard speak when in charge and certainly more sense than any of the current lot on either side.

There are many things that are wrong in society there are a lot of people who don't pay their share yes top business people all avoid tax but that stems right down to every self employed person who only just scrapes by on there 12.5k declared earnings. I'd be more irate about it but in truth who wants to pay tax to have these morons and charlatans to steal it or waste it.

My mate fractured his wrist recently and asked the hospital for a spare cast he could wear for work ( he's a sparky so not like he works hard or anything ). They said he could have one but said it'd be 52 quid a quick look on Amazon and the same one was found for 12 quid. I bet the NHS pay 52 quid for them though because it'll be some M.P who's got shares in the supplier.

One of the things that is majorly bent up is the universal credit system. How can it be possible where we can put ourselves in a position where someone can work a 20 hour week and end off as well off as a full time employee ? I have a part time guy at work who works 20 hours and no more. claims universal credit and then deliver Chineses cash in hand on a weekend and that sort of thing would be common place. I know there are lot of families and single parents who survive on universal credit and I'm not saying there shouldn't be help but there needs to be a better way of getting help to those who genuinely need it whilst stopping people from taking the piss.

I think when we mentioned working class and middle class there is a great levelling up process going on. Whilst the minimum wage rises and the people on benefits get by the people who try to improve their situations get whacked back down. Minimum wage is around 22k basic I think take home pay is 1600 per month roughly ( less pension). Using a mate of mine as an example he works minimum wage 37 hours has 3 kids his universal credit top up means his total income is 2500. Meanwhile a skilled fitter averages 50k per year and that's usually working shifts and unsociable hours. Take home pay roughly 3200 per month . That 700 extra is not to be sniffed at but as said earlier he might have 1 holiday and a nicer car but not a lot else to show for it. If he's a home owner vs a minimum wage guy in a council/ housing association then most of the extra will get eaten up in maintaining his own home I.e the boiler goes ,the fence panels are down or the windows need replacing. But it's OK the skilled fitter can do overtime, minimum wage guy won't because the more hours he does the less universal credit he gets. But my guy does and at this point with tax national insurance and pension contributions he's gotta pay 50% ish of everything he earns.

This however becomes even more of a problem for all the kids who've gone to uni as is the new plan 9% of their wages paying back loans at that point ? So basically a generation paying 60% on anything they earn over 50k. How's anybody supposed to get on ? The major problem with levelling up the bottom and the middle is where's the incentive to work hard ? Where's the incentive to study hard to become something ? Where's the incentive to do the really difficult jobs that not everybody can do if you're only a better car and 1 holiday ahead of the bog cleaner, the shelf stacker, or the kid who works in McDonald's ?

Anyway couldn't sleep had a half ranting directionless ramble as I was bored apologies as its certainly not the discussion for the greyhound thread.
 
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Danny said:
Can't agree with that Maurice. I've been a Shop steward over the last couple of years never really wanted to do it but ended up taking it on. I'm probably the most right leaning Conservative union guy around. Out of the 2 realistic choices we have in the vote the Labour Party or the Labour party as its been for as long as I can remember is not for the working man.

Aside from the corrupt, bent and completely out of touch politicians the Tory party look after the rich but that's not the worst idea as usually it's rich people who pay the poor. Squeeze the rich the shit just flows downhill. I'm no political expert and don't pretend to understand the economy but speaking from experience I'm as working class as you get spent most of my life labouring as my dad did before me and ive always been better off under Tory rule. My dad probably went through his toughest times under Thatcher as he'd just bought a house when the interest rates sky rocketed to around 15% and when the poll tax came in. I wasn't really old enough to have taken it all in at the time so people who went through that may well have a different view but I stand by the opinion that the working man however bizarre it seems is better off under the torys.
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I'll reply to this, Danny, but after that I'm bowing out of the thread since expressing political views is the quickest way, alongside religious ones, to create friction.

For clarity, the following is not directed at you or anyone on here personally.

The view you expressed is the type that makes my blood boil.

I hear it from taxi drivers and punters in the pub or bookies or people in lounges on holiday.

I don't know where these people get these notions from. The Mail, Sun, Express, Telegraph? I really don't.

It is indeed a truly Conservative view of our society of how privileged working class people should feel to get by off the back of efforts by the rich.

It's ignorant and abhorrent to me.
 
Too much politics on this HORSE RACING forum, no one is going to change their views and some obviously struggle with the idea that others have diametrically opposing views and see their views as just as ignorant and abhorrent and really don't give the vaguest f what they think or feel about it
 
It is, for sure, a horse racing forum, but this section is CHIT CHAT, where I'd have thought anything (including politics) goes.

Politics is a subject where feelings tend to run high.

Anyone can give chit chat the old body swerve if they want to.

I occasionally read material here I find grossly offensive, even racist, but I seldom feel the need to respond - the "ignore" button is forever my friend.
 
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Desert Orchid said:
I'll reply to this, Danny, but after that I'm bowing out of the thread since expressing political views is the quickest way, alongside religious ones, to create friction.

For clarity, the following is not directed at you or anyone on here personally.

The view you expressed is the type that makes my blood boil.

I hear it from taxi drivers and punters in the pub or bookies or people in lounges on holiday.

I don't know where these people get these notions from. The Mail, Sun, Express, Telegraph? I really don't.

It is indeed a truly Conservative view of our society of how privileged working class people should feel to get by off the back of efforts by the rich.

It's ignorant and abhorrent to me.
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" The quickest way to create friction" I've been on here a number of years Maurice we've conversed at times about horses racing and I don't think I've ever been abusive, resorted to name calling or even fallen out with anyone so I'm going to take that's a general slant on how political or religious discussions go with others. I can easily debate either subject, I'd know more about religion than I would politics and the economy but I'm happy to discuss either without resorting to personal insults. Whats more the fact people get outraged during discussions really tells me how few real problems they have and how convinced they are that their own view of the world is correct. I on the other hand I'm almost happy to lose an argument as it means I learned something.

I certainly don't read newspapers and my view is formed from the world I've seen and my life.

The working class should feel "privileged", I feel is the wrong word but should at least feel grateful that they live in a world where there is employment, pay, rights and a structure to society. People aren't flocking here in their hundreds of thousands to be poor. Poor is even the wrong word to band about in this country. If you've got a roof over your head and food in your belly then on a worldwide scale you're blessed. People who creates services for people, businesses and employment deserve all the riches that come to them. Once they've created jobs they have to fill them and since the slave trade was abolished in this country Employer and employee come to a mutual agreement on how much pay they'll accept to do a task. If its a simple task that anyone can do then it'll be lowly paid the more skilled you are the higher your value. You don't want a brain surgeon who's on minimum wage and who in their right mind pay's their cleaner 500k per year.

Jeff Bezos created a service that probably half the world has found helpful, in doing so he's created thousands perhaps millions of jobs why shouldn't he be rich beyond belief ? Not everyone can be a rock star. If you're only discernible skills are to have a strong back and be good on a shovel , what the hell are you gonna do in life if someone hasn't created a business for you to shovel at ? You also need to have most of the money with the smartest people because you know what stupid people do with money ? Stupid stuff ! There a a vast amount of lottery winners who's live have gone to bits once they've become a millionaire. Never mind the costas there are enough takeouts, off licences, vape store and drug dealers in every deprived area to say that the working class or "the poor" as you put it are not spending their money wisely. Enough people eating themselves into wheelchairs smoking and vaping themselves onto oxygen tanks and enough lads sniffing there way into heart wards of our hospitals.

If you want to help the poor in this country its not about handing them money. It's about education. But real education teach them about finances, nutrition, show them other ways of life and places in the world and nurture creativity instead of stifling it and trying to turn kids into robots.

You said it wasn't personal towards me but my views are

Ignorant - lacking knowledge and awareness in general, uneducated or unsophisticated.

I'd already said at the beginning I hadn't much of a clue about politics and it wasn't really my thing so admitting to my own ignorance on the subject. But if you want to call me ignorant you could at the very least try and educate me to why I am. You said you didn't want to get involved in discussion you had that choice you didn't have to. But you've got involved insulted my opinion without any better solution and left the room.

Seriously ? What was the point in that Maurice ?

I find that abhorrent.
 
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Ian_Davies said:
It is, for sure, a horse racing forum, but this section is CHIT CHAT, where I'd have thought anything (including politics) goes.

Anyone can give chit chat the old body swerve if they want to.

I occasionally read material here I find grossly offensive, even racist, but I seldom feel the need to respond - the "ignore" button is forever my friend.
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I agree re the chit chat but the home screen still needs sorting out better so the chit chat isn't overriding the horse racing bit.

Politics does go but I probably shouldn't have started in on a greyhound thread which I was only saying was a lovely sensible debate on a tough subject which I later read on to see it was also heartwarming as it ended with a doggy adoption :love:
 
Danny said:
I agree re the chit chat but the home screen still needs sorting out better so the chit chat isn't overriding the horse racing bit.

Politics does go but I probably shouldn't have started in on a greyhound thread which I was only saying was a lovely sensible debate on a tough subject which I later read on to see it was also heartwarming as it ended with a doggy adoption :love:
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Danny -I think you have some great perspectives on life in general.
 
Appreciated brother. I try and help a lot of the young lads at work. One asked me how come you're so spot on with everything.

I said because I've spent my whole life losing and learning from it I've gotten so much wrong in life I think I've ran out of things that you can get wrong ....but I'm still searching.
 
Danny said:
Appreciated brother. I try and help a lot of the young lads at work. One asked me how come you're so spot on with everything.

I said because I've spent my whole life losing and learning from it I've gotten so much wrong in life I think I've ran out of things that you can get wrong ....but I'm still searching.
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Point proven.
 
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