Hennessy Entries

Originally posted by gordhogg@Nov 13 2007, 10:35 PM
I really don't know what all the fuss is about.

To some , Ferdy Murphy and other ahem "astute" trainers are heroes . You never know when their horses will miraculously "discover" their form.

We know that horses are not machines , but let's be quite clear that some trainers are more forthcoming than others. Some see an obligation to the betting public to inform them , and some have an obligation to ensuring that the connected people get on at the right time.

That is why when we took our decision to place our horse with a trainer , we deliberately avoided those trainers who were considered "betting yards".

This has meant that our horse (who is entered for The Hennessy I may add) is considered in very good form and I have no idea whether or not to back him at Newbury. What I will say is that this has been his target for the last 6 months and the trainer continues to be very happy with him.

Because of his handicap mark (over hurdles and fences) it has been difficult to find him a prep race but there was never any consideration of him running in a 2 mile hurdle in order to have him spot on at Newbury. The one thing our trainer has always said is that he runs when he is 100 % fit.

That will do for me.
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having a horse with a trainer who isnt gambling orientated would be like going to a hooker who only provides oral. same cost, without the fun.

i havnt owned a horse yet but if i do, it would be straight with a gambling trainer.
 
Heard today that Patsy Hall was on course to run fwiw..

Not really qualified to comment on the Charlie Hall/Aces Four debate (as I havn't had a look at the whole race), but I will say that, judging solely from connection's comments that I have seen on this thread, it would be a misrepresentation to state that connections as good as stated he was "just out for a school"..

Good, spirited debate though on an interesting topic..
 
Originally posted by rorydelargy@Nov 12 2007, 04:44 PM
For what it's worth, my view is that schooling in public, giving a horse an easy with a view to obtaining a lenient handicap mark and stopping a horse from winning are three separate issues (if you undertand the former to be done without aiming to either lower the handicap mark or obtain a bigger price next time out). The second is a serious offence and should be punished by fines and month long bans and the third should be a warning off offence. Lumping the scenarios together is misleading.
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I certainly agree that there are distinct circumstances for each horse etc. Rory but there is a serious grey area between two and three as I would venture to guess that the majority of horses guilty of offense are actually trying to attain the same goal as those guilty of offense two (i.e. get on a low mark) rather than the obvious alternative, currently the subject of a wee debate at the Old Bailey :D ..
 
Chris -

We've beaten Mr Pointment before at Newbury and we'll beat him again .

Rory- I stood next to Massini's owner and Sarah at Chepstow about 12 months ago (DA was running in a Pertemps qualifier and in spite of going off fav that day he was never in the race) and having seen Massini's get well beaten that day , I can understand the connections not being able to predict the massive improvement in that cheltenham novice hurdle.

If it's any consolation I was also at Cheltenham that day as a guest of Sporting Odds and I did not consider backing Massini's Maguire either. The only winner I had was the Donald McCain horse.
 
Gord, The Mr Pointment that ran at Newbury was not his true ability. there was plenty to like about his cheltenham reappearence and he is an improving horse.
 
Originally posted by chrisbeekracing@Nov 14 2007, 05:21 AM
Which horse is this?

My horses only run when there is a suitable race and I don't believe in running them when they or the race isn't right.

My 2yo filly could have run 3 or 4 time sthis year but she has been growing and has had a couple of minor setbacks. She will benefit from the break and the plan is to come back for a little 8 - 10f maiden on the all weather in February. If she is still weak we will again be patient.

I hate trainers who run horses unfit and risk injury and I think they deserve to do crap and get their stars injured, its pure incompetance. Unfortunately its only the Ownver that really suffers.
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YOUR horses? Yeah ok Chris.
 
I'm not so sure you will beat him again, Gordhogg. Mr Pointment was always going to jump fences, he came out looking like a 3m chaser when he won his bumper at Bangor! Ergo his hurdles form cannot realistically be used as a direct indicator of what he will do over fences.
 
Lots of horses taken out today so my fancy (Snowy Morning) looks sure to get a run. Denman will be a true Gold Cup horse if he can give Snowy Morning a massive amount of weight first time out.
 
Malcolm Heyhoe is bigging Snowy Morning up today, where as Mordin thinks New Alco is unstoppable (for a reason he clearly doesn't understand norty )
 
Are there many likely to back Denman at 4/1 or shorter? The more I look at it the tougher the task it looks for him particularly as its his seasonal debut.
 
Originally posted by Galileo@Nov 25 2007, 12:52 PM
Are there many likely to back Denman at 4/1 or shorter? The more I look at it the tougher the task it looks for him particularly as its his seasonal debut.
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Took 9/2 last week. What did State of Play carry last year, 11-4? I know it`s a tougher field this year, but in recent years horses carrying over 11st have a good record. Denman looks the type to carry a big weight as well.
 
Physically I agree he's well equipped to carry top weight for 3 miles + however surely the real question is whether he is well handicapped or not?

Depends on your viewpoint I suppose,
If you think he's capable of winning an average Gold Cup then he probably has 10lbs in hand.
If you think he's capable of beating Kauto Star he's probably 20lbs + in front of the handicapper.
If you think his form last season was as good as it's going to get (and possibly flattering) then 161 is a hell of a high mark to win a Hennessy off.

Personally I'd be inclined to favour the first one...
That's assuming he's fit of course!
 
I think Denman is probably well capable of carrying the weight to win, not least as he is such a massive horse. He is not a betting proposition though at his current odds, not least when you factor in my worry about the horse which is whether or not he'll be fit enough to win the Hennessy first time up.

I can't have Abragante in any way, shape or form though and I'm not especially enamoured with a lot of the market leaders so it wouldn't surprise me to see Denman win.

Of the larger priced horses I am especially interested in Dom D'Orgeval [despite the form of the Pipe yard, at the price he may be worth a chance] and Hard Act To Follow, who could be very nice. Obviously he has a hell of a lot of improvement to do but he is unexposed, clearly very talented and has no weight.

One respected judge has put up Always Waining if the ground is good which is certainly interesting also I think.
 
No doubt that Hard Act To Follow could be very nice but backing him for the Hennessy with his record would appear to stretch even a huge leap of faith, and huge leaps of faith are quite big. :suspect:
 
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