Israel/Palestine

Translation: Clivex thinks that I (and possibly some other forum members) make assumptions about his views, without having any evidence of what his views are.

However, I'm only guessing that's what he means, because his use of the word 'assuming' is incorrect. I'm not 'assuming' his views at all, which would mean to incorporate them into my own mindset. I think his views on Middle Eastern issues have demonstrated a paucity of knowledge coupled with a strongly negative bias towards Arabs, and Islam in particular. But that's only my assumption - I may be wrong and he has, against all the evidence he's provided over a long period of time, a well-balanced and objective viewpoint on the topic.

Yeah, right. Look at those little piggies fly! :whistle:
 
krizon said:
Translation: Clivex thinks that I (and possibly some other forum members) make assumptions about his views, without having any evidence of what his views are.
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All I know is he's a bit right wing and supports Chelsea.

chelsea-fans.gif
 
Anyone wanting to balance their views on this and other similar subjects could do worse than read the Jewish Chronicle online. This edition has a particularly fascinating headline! http://www.thejc.com - featuring the murdered Iranian dissident's fiance meeting Shimon Peres - not to adulation in Iran, although obviously only a negative viewpoint would be allowed to be publicised.

Euro - ah, nice to see the little 'uns being taught good manners!
 
so I wouldn't hold out much hope of him believing even the USA's own figures
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!

I'm not 'assuming' his views at all,
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You refer to a paucity of knowledge but the best you can offer is "what has Israel ever done for us", which is entirely irrelevant

You make comments about my views on arabs when it is clear that i have refered to arab nations. However your comments about jews have stretched out beyond nations to talk of "media control" and so on

Not good enough...
 
clivex said:
But hey as you stated "nobody likes" the jewish nation do they?
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You eventually got something almost* right. Well done. Now, just try for a second success, why not?

* 'Israel' - not "the jewish nation" -- don't change things when you clearly don't know what you're saying.
Or do you have to be jewish to be an Israeli national?
 
Something almost right?

You havent successfully countered one single point i have made.
 
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For the same reason we haven't threatened to invade North Korea, India, or Pakistan (and definitely not the USA or Russia!) - it's all about who's in, who's out at the time. When we didn't want the Russkies spreading that thur commie-nism in Afghanistan, we supplied arms and gave full support to the tribes to blow those poor young Russian conscripts out of their tanks. Now we love Russia, are cosy with it over pipelines, and we hate the tribes because - gosh! how did we miss this before? - they're not very nice to wimminfolk. We're fighting the 'war on drugs' - God knows why, since there was a huge downturn in opium-growing when the Taleban were ruling Afghanistan (preferrring to just behead dealers, and not pussyfoot around with silly trials and excuses about the soil being all wrong for cabbages), but now we're busy knocking seven bells out of them, Eastern Europe is swamped with heroin.

If you can ever make sense out of politics, I salute you. For a mere wummun like me, my poor old head fair swims with the rapid about-faces and double-dealings.
 
Why are Israel 'allowed' to have a nucelar Arsenal but everyone is up in arms about Iran?

Only one of these countries has waged war on another country in recent years
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Iran Iraq war?

Iran openly backs terrorists across the middle east who would just love to have such a weapon

Iran openly threatens to "wipe" another country off the map> which other nuclear state has made such a statement of intent?
 
Now we love Russia, are cosy with it over pipelines, and we hate the tribes because - gosh! how did we miss this before? - they're not very nice to wimminfolk
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Thats about as confused as it gets

Love Russia? Might have something to do with the fact that it is no longer a cold war enemy? Hardly say that the country is "loved"

I think "the tribes" (meaning presumably the taleban) would have been left alone (as vile as they are) if they didnt give total support and backup to an organisation that was/is intent on killing all jews and westerners simply on the basis of their race and beliefs
 
clivex said:
Iran openly threatens to "wipe" another country off the map> which other nuclear state has made such a statement of intent?
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Clivex, wit made a post over on TRF a few weeks/months back, which included quotes from Israeli Prime Ministers from Ben Gurion to Peres - the inference of which was that Israel was bequethed to the Jews by God, and that (I'm now paraphrasing a bit) "the Palestinians/Arabs should be driven into the sea"...........or words to that effect.

I remembered it at the time as an interesting counter-punch to this particularly vapid argument of yours, and to be perfectly honest, I figured you were clever enough to not use it again. It seems I was wrong.

As I've said before, this is rhetoric from Iran - no more, no less - yet not only is it used by yourself without any reference to the wider context of Ahemdinejad's speech, you use it to promote a blood-lust on the part of the Iranian's. In which case, it begs the question:

What say you of those quotes attributed to the Israeli Prime Ministers, which are tantamount to the same thing.

I realise this would have more 'oomph' if I could actually locate the quotes, but I know you know the one's I'm talking about, and I know you know I'lldig you up, if you say you've never seen them.

When all is said and done, only Israel appears to have fllowed through with it's quoted threat.......yet you still see them as victims, whilst painting Ahemdinjed as some kind of latter-day Satan, when all he has done in comparison is run his undoubtedly large gob off.
 
That was not an opinion of every israeli prime minister. Was Oslo "driving them into the sea" . was it fck. It was everything they asked for.

So if Bush or Cameron or someone stated that Pakistan should be "wiped off the face of the earth", the same hand wringing excuses would be made?

A perisdent who supplies arms to organisations who do believe taht certain races should be exterminated is to be trusted with nuclear weapons? And yes i can find those quotes...

Where have i said that israel are victims? I have stated that they have often suprebly defended themselves and i hope that they continue to do so
 
It's presumably to assure continued funding for the USA's massive defense (sic) budget within its even more massive military budget. If it's anything like the Patriot missile... :lol: The bloody thing did manage to hit some Scuds, which it blew up in the air, thus creating a massive area of red-hot shrapnel over several miles, versus many a Scud landing with a thud, because of their age, most were a dud.
 
I just don't undestand what Israel's defence has got to do with the US Budget - it's incredible!
 
I suppose we could say what has Afghanistan got to do with Britain, and cost it so much in lives and billions of ££ in supporting troops.

No-one in the USA seems to challenge the 'special relationship' with Israel, especially as Israel doesn't represent anything of importance or benefit to the US - its usual raison d'etre for meddling in other countries' affairs (think of its various overthrows and attempted overthrows of even properly elected presidents).

I'm sure that many Americans who've been smashed during the recession will think that the vast amount of dollars to be spent on this venture might've been better used at home combatting poverty, inner-city deprivation, or even home reposssessions. It'd be interesting to see if there is a hue and cry raised on this theme - but I doubt it.
 
I'm not saying I subscribe to this, but the argument for Afghanistan is weeding out the Taliban who supposedly present a threat to British security - it's hard to see the angle for America, but you don't need to be a genius really!
 
Umm, no, it's not the Taleban who represent a 'threat to British security' because, if you remember, we used them as our allies (hence the good supply of equipment issued to them by us and other non-Commie countries) to force the Russkies out of Afghanistan. The Taleban aren't nice people by our standards, but they were good enough to use so that Russia couldn't get its hands on oil pipelines, which we and the West in general want. It's Al-Queda, grown in Saudi Arabia originally (by a Saudi, Osama bin Laden) which would like our infidel heads on a spike. The Taleban just want a return to the good old days of women cooking goats and raising kids behind blacked-out windows, and men doing manly things. One of the many changing reasons why we're in the benighted country is to not let them have their wicked ways - not that we gave a damn in the 1980s.
 
:blink: I know the feeling! To be honest, I really don't understand the deal either, Hamm - some things are beyond my ickle brain. (Quite a lot, actually!)
 
Some country, eh?

Countries are invaded and dismantled for a lot less than what Israel has done in the past few years.
 
A fine country, one taht i admire more than most and one that has rightly taken strong action to protect its citizens from surrounding fanatical racist aggression

they do not get everything right, and although we do not know full story of yesterdays action (and maybe never will), it does look very bungled. But overall to create a strong economy (which far outstrips even the oil rich failed states on its borders) and a true democracy from what is effectively resource free land is some achievement

They need to get peace talks back on track and stop the settlements though. The Palestinians will no doubt bottle it again, even when presented with concession to every demand (ie Oslo) but it should be on the table. Whether the nazi worshipping filth that is Hamas can be negotiated with, is a different matter

on the other hand they should take absolutely no notice of "world opinion"
especially that of the european left and the islamic world, who will always have issues with a Jewish state regardless. Their opinions are irrelevant and tainted and Israels first prioirity is its own security
 
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