The closer peope are to horses the more they seem to cope with losing them; it's a case of having to I guess given that they are such fragile animals. Ruby was, in a way, misquoted, but I'd still bet that he wouldn't have come over to see Kauto.
Kauto Star RIP
- Thread starter Diamond Geezer
- Start date
M
marbler
Guest
True Moe. I reckon Fist is still living off the Thai Baht he made during the Kauto era! R.I.P to Kauto Star.
EC1
On a break
there was no sensationialism..he said what Warb quoted..which was right..humans are more important than horses...factually correct..but stupid to say in the context of the industry he works..an industry where the animals are viewed as loved creatures as pets are..a totally unnecessary and pointless view passed..but typical of the bloke who thinks he has to make some forthright statement each time he opens his gob
Last edited:
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Was a lot of fun backing Kauto but more fun debating Kauto V Denman.........never since Arkle V Mill House was there such a heated debate.
Better was still to come with an even fiercer debate on the Betfair Chase and I was still 100% in his camp...........8/1 I got but to be honest it was more hope that confidence but how he started at 3/1 for that 5th King George still beats the **** out of me.
I think with Kauto it was mainly a case of being afraid not to back him because you knew that uncanny ability to win was there and you were just to scared to back against him.....at least I was.
Funny enough the biggest bet I ever had on him was in a double with Denman when he won The King George 2007 and a couple of days later Denman took the Lexus.
Definitely the best I saw since Arkle and very close to his equal on his best King George performances. Happily unlike my pal Sprinter he had a good long run at it and just kept coming back.
8 long years between his 1st and last win is an amazing record and he and Golden Miller stand alone on that score.
Better was still to come with an even fiercer debate on the Betfair Chase and I was still 100% in his camp...........8/1 I got but to be honest it was more hope that confidence but how he started at 3/1 for that 5th King George still beats the **** out of me.
I think with Kauto it was mainly a case of being afraid not to back him because you knew that uncanny ability to win was there and you were just to scared to back against him.....at least I was.
Funny enough the biggest bet I ever had on him was in a double with Denman when he won The King George 2007 and a couple of days later Denman took the Lexus.
Definitely the best I saw since Arkle and very close to his equal on his best King George performances. Happily unlike my pal Sprinter he had a good long run at it and just kept coming back.
8 long years between his 1st and last win is an amazing record and he and Golden Miller stand alone on that score.
EC1
On a break
unfortunatley his KG demolition winning distance was caused by a pace collapse that cost the placed horses badly and exhaggerated his winning distance by about 15/20 lengths
As good as KS was..he had a stone+ to find with Arkle..but without doubt the best since him..although many on here thought Denman teh better horse
As good as KS was..he had a stone+ to find with Arkle..but without doubt the best since him..although many on here thought Denman teh better horse
Nearly threw all my old notes away the other day but glad I didn't. Want to find the one when Dan Skelton came to our racing club and I wrote down 'Kauto Star; probably better going left handed'. I was so angry when the bookies had their 'Kauto Star to fall in Gold Cup' bet. I'd forgotten his pillar to post win as well after I'd been one of the people wanting him retired. Jeeez; I was so relieved to see him retire in one piece.
Last edited:
EC1
On a break
you are basing that judgement on a pace collapse though where the placed horse ran way below their marks after burning too hard...what is his rating at kempton without that one run?
EC1
On a break
A rating that is valid..even without handicaps
the fact is..that a horse,,before most on here were born..was of Frankel++ like proportions will never be accepted..its a non accpetance due to not being around syndrome thing
i was alive but not interested in racing when he was around..but i do belive there was a horse that could have given the best since a stone and beat him.
Before Frankel made us realise how good a horse couldbe...i doubt many would belive a horse like excelebration ..top miler most years...could be hammered 11 lengths by any horse ..would be unthinkable. it happened though
its all about expanding the mindset imo
Arkle was the Secretariat of the jumps..both stand head and shoulders above normality
to want others to be near those two is a bit unrealistic imo...forget them and enjoy what we have and have seen
the fact is..that a horse,,before most on here were born..was of Frankel++ like proportions will never be accepted..its a non accpetance due to not being around syndrome thing
i was alive but not interested in racing when he was around..but i do belive there was a horse that could have given the best since a stone and beat him.
Before Frankel made us realise how good a horse couldbe...i doubt many would belive a horse like excelebration ..top miler most years...could be hammered 11 lengths by any horse ..would be unthinkable. it happened though
its all about expanding the mindset imo
Arkle was the Secretariat of the jumps..both stand head and shoulders above normality
to want others to be near those two is a bit unrealistic imo...forget them and enjoy what we have and have seen
Last edited:
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Frankel
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2014
- Messages
- 4,942
Valid in your opinion EC which is fair enough. Arkle was a machine and the greatest. Would accept he would give Kauto a stone in a Gold Cup maybe. Though in a King George or let's say over 2 miles. Certainly wouldn't be getting anywhere near that imo.
Last edited:
EC1
On a break
its a non accpetance due to not being around syndrome thing
thats a classic example
according to you Euro..before the internet started all jumps horses were rated about 50 and anything that won GC was dancing around a field with a farmer feeding it leftovers and riding it down to the papershop for exercise each day
Last edited:
EC1
On a break
I loved KS ..but that kempton win skewed all reality ratings wise..you have a look at every KG win..calculate the ratings..they all look realistic..taht one win where MDB and the rest were out on their legs isn't a rating vehicle
Personally i'm happy to accept he was a 190+ horse..but i also believe that the other one was better by at least 14
we have seen a little of what a monster can do with sprinter sacre..just look how superior he was in his pomp..he never came out of second gear..these freaks do exist..but probably one in each code..once a lifetime
Last edited:
icebreaker
At the Start
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2005
- Messages
- 2,957
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
its a non accpetance due to not being around syndrome thing
thats a classic example
according to you Euro..before the internet started all jumps horses were rated about 50 and anything that won GC was dancing around a field with a farmer feeding it leftovers and riding it down to the papershop for exercise each day
There wasn't as many good horses around in those days, stands to reason with less of a population, no French breds. So there has to be a good chance the odd Gold Cup fell to a nag. I mean, it's happened since I started following the sport - Norton's Coin, Cool Ground, War of Attrition. Beasts that were barely 160+. With even fewer horse in training in the last 60s is it not possible that a chaser barely in the 150s could win a Gold Cup - and so by that rationale given collateral form with What a Myth and Stalbridge Colonist (if memory serves, I'm at work) you can have Arkle in the 190s but surely no more.
EC1
On a break
quibling a bit i think...he stated the bleedin obvious..animals aren't valued as much as humans..thats fair enough to non racing people..to people who love horses it wasn't the right thing to say.
the problem in racing is that people get an allegiance to a jockey..and even if they say they sh*t tastes good the followers will agree and stick up for them..just because they said it.
no matter what his exact words were....in the racing industry he was demeaning the bond between horse and owner
EC1
On a break
he won those races in the style of Sprinter Sacre though Euro..you can't really measure the superiority
Mill House was classed as the best horse of his generation..he was very similar to Denman...what would rate a horse that beat Denman like Arkle kept beating MH.
like said..re KS..it doesn't matter...he is the best NH horse i've ever seen..Frankel is the best flat horse i've ever seen..i'm happy with that
icebreaker
At the Start
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2005
- Messages
- 2,957
EC1
On a break
i'll let you take it up with Warb then..he quoted it..personally i don't give a toss..the bloke is a great jockey..but apart form that.....
Flagship uberalles
Journeyman
EC1
On a break
i haven't dismissed anything about KS...in fact i've done nothing but praise him..he is the best chaser i've seen since i started following racing in teh 70's..pretty difficult to give higher praise than that to be fair
I know for a fact that they went too fast in the KG..i don't know the times of Arkle's races..but am guessing that every one wasn't a pace burster.
What rating do you get for each KG?..without that 2009 KG?..then tell me what you get for that KG on its own.
I'll ask a second question..when Frankel won the guineas do you think he was just 6 lengths superior to the field?
Last edited:
tbh - i thought Tanlic covered it. Walsh said what he said, but the headline writer is normally a different a person to the journo who writes the article. The quote wouldn't make a headline (too long) and so some red top interpreted the nuance to "he's only a horse" (or very, very similar). Naughty? well yes, but I've fallen foul of the thing that the media tries to do of course which is to plant the shortened version in the consciousness. You could of course argue that the sentiment is the same, albeit you might have more accurately reflected it along the lines of "horses not as important as people" (which is reasonable enough imo)
How we deal with grief, or a more recent trends perhaps, how we're increasingly instructed or persuaded to deal with grief, is an altogether different issue.