Kauto Star

I think there is some reading between the lines to be done. If I was Nicholls i'd be a bit miffed if Smith had gone off consulting everyone else on what the right move is for the horse. Surely Nicholls knows the horse better than anyone? Yogi Bear and the dressage trainer are bound to say its a good idea!!! Easy publicity.

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Behave yourself Aragorn Yogi Breisner is one of the most respected horse trainers in the world and is better known than Paul Nicholls will ever be.

I reckon he'll be cockaloop at having the oppotunty to work with Kauto on this new venture and he'll be well up to the challenge.

Paul Nicholls gets miffed all the time he's a big fookin cry baby
 
What if you see someone making a shite of your horse? Do you allow him to continue, as he is an expert?

no..i move him to someone else..as is an owners right i would say

and firstly i wouldn't have with a useless trainer..i'd check on here to see who is useless first;)

owners who tell trainers how to run their horses might as well train them themselves..otherwise whats the point in paying a pro?
 
Yogi Breisner is one of the most respected horse trainers in the world and is better known than Paul Nicholls will ever be.

"Yogi Breisner"....google hits 15,100
"Paul Nicholls Horse Racing"....google hits 515,000

Yogi Breisner doesn't have a wikipedia page. Paul Nicholls' wikipedia page is viewed 60+ times per day.

Yogi Breisner 48 results on guardian.co.uk......"Paul Nicholls Horse" gets 1,662 results.

Yogi Breisner 20 results on dailymail.co.uk......"Paul Nicholls Horse" gets 718 results.

And on nytimes.com.....Paul Nicholls 2-0 Yogi Breisner

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Can you kindly explain how Yogi Breisner is better known?
 
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"Yogi Breisner"....google hits 15,100
"Paul Nicholls Horse Racing"....google hits 515,000

Yogi Breisner doesn't have a wikipedia page. Paul Nicholls' wikipedia page is viewed 60+ times per day.

Yogi Breisner 48 results on guardian.co.uk......"Paul Nicholls Horse" gets 1,662 results.

Yogi Breisner 20 results on dailymail.co.uk......"Paul Nicholls Horse" gets 718 results.

And on nytimes.com.....Paul Nicholls 2-0 Yogi Breisner

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Can you kindly explain how Yogi Breisner is more famous?

:lol:
 
Behave yourself Aragorn Yogi Breisner is one of the most respected horse trainers in the world and is better known than Paul Nicholls will ever be.

I reckon he'll be cockaloop at having the oppotunty to work with Kauto on this new venture and he'll be well up to the challenge.

Paul Nicholls gets miffed all the time he's a big fookin cry baby

So Yogi Breisner is a better trainer of NH horses than Paul Nicholls? Yogi knows Kauto better than Nicholls? His suggestion of dressage has no personal motivation? Based on the facts at hand Nicholls is better placed to comment and he trained the fecking horse for most of his career.

And I will behave myself when you put forward an argument that isn't based on your mythical knowledge of the game and isn't in some way patronising or disparaging...

Finally, If you could be so kind as to keep your response to under 3 lines that would be much appreciated.... :D
 
What does Nicholls know about what horses do after they are retired? I would suggest very little.

Actually I'd say he knows a fair old bit. In the area around Ditcheat you'll find no end of ex-Nicholls horses doing all sorts of things, often living with Ditcheat stable staff. There are loads of them in the PTP world across the country. Nicholls goes to PTPs on his days off. As I said above, the stable have had an involvement with Neptune since his retirement and See More Business lives close by. It's well-known that Denman has gone teamchasing in the footsteps of Earthmover. There seems to be a lot of effort put into making sure that the horses have an active and worthwhile retirement.

I'm very much with Ardross. I'm inclined to think that not consulting with the people who know the horse best (Kauto's been there 8 years, day in, day out) is actually not particularly responsible. If you want to consult an independent expert then you should at least make as much information as possible available to him - I hardly think that Clive Smith is in a position to do that.

My view is that the move to dressage has been driven by a desire for Kauto to have an active retirement anywhere but at Ditcheat coupled with an untimely bit of publicity around Neptune's new "career" rather than a full and rounded evaluation of the situation.

Paul Nicholls and Clive Smith evidently fell out a while ago. I suspect that until that happened the assumption was that Kauto would live out his retirement at or near the stable. I don't blame Nicholls, or his staff (in fact, particularly his staff, who really have looked after Kauto throughout his career), for feeling somewhat aggrieved.

I have to say that I do feel a bit sorry for Laura Collett, who has ended up caught up in the middle of all this through no fault of her own.
 
Actually I'd say he knows a fair old bit. In the area around Ditcheat you'll find no end of ex-Nicholls horses doing all sorts of things, often living with Ditcheat stable staff. There are loads of them in the PTP world across the country. Nicholls goes to PTPs on his days off. As I said above, the stable have had an involvement with Neptune since his retirement and See More Business lives close by. It's well-known that Denman has gone teamchasing in the footsteps of Earthmover. There seems to be a lot of effort put into making sure that the horses have an active and worthwhile retirement.


My view is that the move to dressage has been driven by a desire for Kauto to have an active retirement anywhere but at Ditcheat coupled with an untimely bit of publicity around Neptune's new "career" rather than a full and rounded evaluation of the situation.

Paul Nicholls and Clive Smith evidently fell out a while ago. I suspect that until that happened the assumption was that Kauto would live out his retirement at or near the stable. I don't blame The staff (in fact, particularly his staff, who really have looked after Kauto throughout his career), for feeling somewhat aggrieved.

I have to say that I do feel a bit sorry for Laura Collett, who has ended up caught up in the middle of all this through no fault of her own.


Edited it a bit, but basically muttley has said what I would love to be eloquent enough to have done. However I do think it has been a fair bit of toy throwing going on - and it's for all the world like CS has been told to collect his ball...

And now I see poor Laura Collett getting it in the neck from all directions for hopping on board today - poor lass is never going to win!! Photos don't prove anything other than she's had a sit, so she trotted round her school - big deal...
Photos don't prove anything about how long he was ridden for, nor does he look like he was thrown straight into a hard schooling session. She's not some random pony club child - and she's not going to ruin him!!


Lot of people need their heads banging together IMHO
 
Google search:

Paul Nicholls - 4,080,000 results
Yogi Breisner - 14,700 results

Paul Nicholls Horses - 945,000
Yogi Breisner horses - 40,800

But of course Yogi is known and not known...... Know what I mean?
 
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The Clive Smith quotes show Nicholls to be a tw*t of the highest order.
I would imagine he's saved himself a fair amount of trainers fees from Smith and others with his behaviour over this.
And, he prioritised throwing his toys out of the pram and getting Kauto out of the yard asap rather than letting his stable staff say goodbye. What a clown.

Hamm I was merely pointing out your assertion that Nicholls prioritised throwing his toys out of the pram and getting Kauto out of the yard asap rather than letting his stable staff say goodbye was completely unfounded and the vitriolic abuse was unnecessary and does you no credit.

With reference to the Smith quotes, they seem to be somewhat contradictory. He seems to indicate that he told Nicholls as long ago as May that he would be sending him to do dressage whereas all statements in the Autumn indicated all parties were still unsure what the future held for the horse. On the morning of the Betfred Chase at Haydock, Smith was the guest on the Morning Line for the unveiling of the KS statue and once again stated no decision had been taken regarding the horse’s future although he did say he might go to dressage.

Might !

Given he has allegedly consulted experts I am confused as to why the horse has been sent to an eventer to do dressage.

He has also been quoted as saying if KS does not take to dressage he will be put in a field somewhere in Surrey so he can visit him. So much for keeping him active then.

Coming to you not being able understand my defence of Nicholls, I assume you refer to my post of yesterday. It is not so much defending Nicholls as suggesting the decision by Smith to remove the horse is shameful given all that racing has given him. Yes he bought all the horses, not just KS, and yes the Nicholls stable benefited enormously from having the horses in their yard. Nonetheless the success of the horse was due to the countless hours of dedication by a lot of the Nicholls team who over many years built up a vast knowledge of what the horse needs and what it is capable of. Smith was the prime beneficiary of this and was substantially rewarded in terms of prize money and lots of memories which he might not have achieved elsewhere.
Whether he likes it or not the horse became the peoples’ horse in the world of NH racing and became a great ambassador for British racing all over the world and Smith himself achieved worldwide fame. Unfortunately there are many “takers” in life and not as many give anything back and I feel it was shameful of Smith not to give something back to British racing which has served him so well.
A wonderful opportunity has been missed to promote British racing. KS could have been used at all sorts of events, not just sporting ones, to achieve this. The horse if allowed to stay at Ditcheat would have been ridden out each day by Clifford or Donna, would have helped in educating they young horses and been kept in tip top condition in an environment where he was entirely happy. Many charities benefited from the proceeds of stable tours mostly taken by people wishing to see KS “at home”
I trust Hamm, this answers your question.
 
Yogi Brisner could work for Nicholls
the designed job for him at Ditcheat would be cooking the breakfast for the boys.
 
Hamm I was merely pointing out your assertion that Nicholls prioritised throwing his toys out of the pram and getting Kauto out of the yard asap rather than letting his stable staff say goodbye was completely unfounded and the vitriolic abuse was unnecessary and does you no credit.

With reference to the Smith quotes, they seem to be somewhat contradictory. He seems to indicate that he told Nicholls as long ago as May that he would be sending him to do dressage whereas all statements in the Autumn indicated all parties were still unsure what the future held for the horse. On the morning of the Betfred Chase at Haydock, Smith was the guest on the Morning Line for the unveiling of the KS statue and once again stated no decision had been taken regarding the horse’s future although he did say he might go to dressage.

Might !

Given he has allegedly consulted experts I am confused as to why the horse has been sent to an eventer to do dressage.

He has also been quoted as saying if KS does not take to dressage he will be put in a field somewhere in Surrey so he can visit him. So much for keeping him active then.

Coming to you not being able understand my defence of Nicholls, I assume you refer to my post of yesterday. It is not so much defending Nicholls as suggesting the decision by Smith to remove the horse is shameful given all that racing has given him. Yes he bought all the horses, not just KS, and yes the Nicholls stable benefited enormously from having the horses in their yard. Nonetheless the success of the horse was due to the countless hours of dedication by a lot of the Nicholls team who over many years built up a vast knowledge of what the horse needs and what it is capable of. Smith was the prime beneficiary of this and was substantially rewarded in terms of prize money and lots of memories which he might not have achieved elsewhere.
Whether he likes it or not the horse became the peoples’ horse in the world of NH racing and became a great ambassador for British racing all over the world and Smith himself achieved worldwide fame. Unfortunately there are many “takers” in life and not as many give anything back and I feel it was shameful of Smith not to give something back to British racing which has served him so well.
A wonderful opportunity has been missed to promote British racing. KS could have been used at all sorts of events, not just sporting ones, to achieve this. The horse if allowed to stay at Ditcheat would have been ridden out each day by Clifford or Donna, would have helped in educating they young horses and been kept in tip top condition in an environment where he was entirely happy. Many charities benefited from the proceeds of stable tours mostly taken by people wishing to see KS “at home”
I trust Hamm, this answers your question.

Thanks for the detailed answer :cool:

There was no abuse; I think Nicholls is self absorbed and self interested, hence a bit of a tw*t. He did, imho, throw his toys out of the pram, and even though we disagree, which is fine, he hasn't come out of this looking great no matter where you are sitting.

I wouldn't be a fan of Clive Smith, by the way.

I also don't understand why Smith hasn't had a new horse with any trainer in several years?
 
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