Kauto Star

I wonder what sort of level these ex racers compete at? A friend of mine has dressage horses and she brings them on from a very young age. Clive Smith does come across as a bit pompous but there have been times when he's talked about his love of racing from an early age and his dreams of owning a good horse that have made me really warm to him. I think he's just very reserved, and possibly a bit shy. Of course Mr Hales horses, on retirement have the advantage of being owned by someone whose family are immersed in all things horsey so they have the advantage of knowing what would suit them.
 
I'd imagine it would be very hard for Clive Smith to let go.

To have such a brilliant horse then before you know it it's all over must be hard to accept.

I can understand the man wanting him to keep performing even if it is in a different sphere.

He's obviously got a bit more going on for him than most horses and to see him win anything again and know he's happy doing it is something I would want to do.

I would have thought PN would understand that even if he thinks it's not going to be great at it.

It's a hard sad fact of life he is not Ditchets horse and Paul should take it on the chin and be right behind the man who help put him on the map. It is not like Clive Smith is putting him in danger and all he wants is the fun to continue a bit longer if he can
 
Which is why moehat I'd imagine Clive Smith asked experts and not the team at Ditcheat what would be best for Kauto since he doesn't have that advantage. Sorry forgot to add that he'd get a less biased view about things from a neutral.
Good luck to him! Hope he does well and if he turns out not to be suited to dressage I'm sure they'll find something that does suit him.
Understand that those at the Nicholls yard are disappointed to see him go but as other have said, its Clive's horse and fair play to him if he wants to try a totally new challenge for KS. Also agree that the staff seem to have forgotten that it was Nicholls who asked for him to be moved now rather than after Xmas.

Just saw this as well

http://www.attheraces.com/article.a...#39;Amazing'+Kauto+impresses+Collett&day=
 
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I've got it in my head that Clive Smith wants Kauto to have an active retirement that doesn't involve anything that might enganger him in any way. Wasn't he at Ditcheat when Kauto had that horrific schooling accident this year? Either way it was totally wrong of PN to insist on the horse leaving immediately; not fair on the horse or stable staff and not leaving an option to return in the future. But I guess none of us know the true story behind whats happened, and all that matters is that Kauto has retired safe and sound and, please God lets hope he has a long and happy life. Whether he's far too explosive a creature for dresage remains to be seen. I do enjoy watching dressage these days, thanks to the exploits of Totlilas et al in recent years but, even as I watch them I half want to see the horse cantering free across a field somewhere.
 
The Clive Smith quotes show Nicholls to be a tw*t of the highest order.

I would imagine he's saved himself a fair amount of trainers fees from Smith and others with his behaviour over this.

And, he prioritised throwing his toys out of the pram and getting Kauto out of the yard asap rather than letting his stable staff say goodbye. What a clown.
 
erm........there are several photos with the whole staff in attendance as well as several pictures of individual lads and lasses saying goodbye on Facebook and Twitter.
 
Why are they whingeing then?

I find it extremely hard to understand how you are defending Nicholls here..
 
i can understand the folk at ditcheat being upset over this but the whole thing seems to have been made worse by nicholls really with his insistence on the abrupt departure.
 
Diamond Geezer the only sane one of this forum bar one or two by the looks of it.

No point talking to the rest of the superficial smug w*nkers on here.

I see Clivex has packed it in haha.:)
 
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Hamm said:
Why are they whingeing then?

I find it extremely hard to understand how you are defending Nicholls here..
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I think there is some reading between the lines to be done. If I was Nicholls i'd be a bit miffed if Smith had gone off consulting everyone else on what the right move is for the horse. Surely Nicholls knows the horse better than anyone? Yogi Bear and the dressage trainer are bound to say its a good idea!!! Easy publicity.

Like I said before, Nicholls reacts emotively, Smith is being a politician and with the media and Twitter involved its easy to make someone look like a complete tw@t. I'm not Nicholls biggest fan but given what Nicholls has done for Smith you'd like to think he'd get some input into what he does next.

Personally I would prefer Kauto to stay at Ditcheat - I have bugger all interest in seeing the old boy prance around. It's like Lionel Messi going to do ballet when he retires cos he is light on his feet.
 
What does Nicholls know about what horses do after they are retired? I would suggest very little.

They have both benefited mutually from the relationship, but the risk was all on Smith's side, and it was considerable.
 
Well said Aragorm.

Show some balls, show some heart, you'll be shot down in flames.

Best to just toe the party line, so and so owns the horse and therefore....

The government owns most of these two-bit cretin banks aswell did you know..
 
Aragorn's posting is pretty much along the right lines I would suggest .

If it is true that PN and his team only found out about the dressage decision on Saturday without being consulted for their views as to whether the horse was suitable for the discipline then I can understand entirely why they are so miffed . Neptune Collonges is apparently very easy going and tractable and therefore dressage was appropriate . Kauto as a very buzzy horse - kicking out in the Sandown paddock , dropping his rider last week out at exercise might very well not be .I am no expert and I am sure Hamm isn't .

Paul Morrison's suggestion on RUK that it was perhaps a decision that would have been better made round a table with not merely Breisner and Collett but all those who know him best like , PN , Dan Skelton , Baker and KS's lass - seems sensible to me so that a completely informed decision was made.

The decision to have the horse taken away immediately strikes me as rather precipitate but I imagine Nicholls and his team were pretty hurt and upset and with the horse still there things were festering .

It is all a sorry business and rather like Wayward Lad's retirement fiasco - rather sad.
 
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Hamm, What does Smith know? Feck all - And why does Yogi bear know better? With regards to Kauto I think its safe to say that Nicholls knows more and I know I would be p!ssed off if I was Nicholls that after all this time Smith decided to take someone completely unrelateds council. As Ardross says - A mutual or at least inclusive decision would have been the right thing to do with Smith having the final say (And rightly - its his horse)

Nicholls is definitely being a tad petulant but this horse means as much to him as Smith even if he doesn't own him. Smith hasn;t exactly repaid Nicholls by buying up a load of stock with the mountains of money he made from Kauto. Smith has been the biggest benefactor in that relationship - Yes he bought some horses and took a risk but he's one of those lucky owners who has genuinely made a lot of money out of his NH bloodstock investment. In fact I'd go so far as to say that he will have made more profit (Particularly per horse) than any other NH owner ever.... Kauto's million pound bonus was Japan Cup type money....

The boyish well spoken schoolboy look hides a ruthless bloke - I think it's a p!ss take he's going sending Kauto to do dressage.

I'd prefer to see him given a job as a lead horse or given a mare to play with even if he is going to fire blanks everywhere... He doesn't deserve to prance about like a d!ck all day.

The horse loves to race, loves to jump and loves to gallop.... I know lets make him do dressage?!! Come on.....

Nobody is blameless in this except the horse and that is probably the worse thing about it.

A true legend of the game does not deserve to have this furore surrounding his retirement even if the horse is completely oblivious.
 
Aragorn said:
Hamm, What does Smith know? Feck all - And why does Yogi bear know better? With regards to Kauto I think its safe to say that Nicholls knows more and I know I would be p!ssed off if I was Nicholls that after all this time Smith decided to take someone completely unrelateds council. As Ardross says - A mutual or at least inclusive decision would have been the right thing to do with Smith having the final say (And rightly - its his horse)

Nicholls is definitely being a tad petulant but this horse means as much to him as Smith even if he doesn't own him. Smith hasn;t exactly repaid Nicholls by buying up a load of stock with the mountains of money he made from Kauto. Smith has been the biggest benefactor in that relationship - Yes he bought some horses and took a risk but he's one of those lucky owners who has genuinely made a lot of money out of his NH bloodstock investment. In fact I'd go so far as to say that he will have made more profit (Particularly per horse) than any other NH owner ever.... Kauto's million pound bonus was Japan Cup type money....

The boyish well spoken schoolboy look hides a ruthless bloke - I think it's a p!ss take he's going sending Kauto to do dressage.

I'd prefer to see him given a job as a lead horse or given a mare to play with even if he is going to fire blanks everywhere... He doesn't deserve to prance about like a d!ck all day.

The horse loves to race, loves to jump and loves to gallop.... I know lets make him do dressage?!! Come on.....

Nobody is blameless in this except the horse and that is probably the worse thing about it.

A true legend of the game does not deserve to have this furore surrounding his retirement even if the horse is completely oblivious.
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A smart man.
 
i'm finding this thread really funny

a while ago i suggested that owners were the last people that should be telling trainers and jockeys what to do in races..they should leave it to those they pay to know their job...i was told by owners on here..and it was generally agreed by i assume non owners...that even if the owner is a complete tool and knows f00k all about racing that as they pay the bills the jockey and trainer should do as they are told.

even though that idea to me smacks of total stupidity on the owners part...it now seems that when an owner makes a decision he is entitled to..its wrong..not fair on trainer.

so..according to owners its acceptable to totally ignore a trainer and jockey re tactics..but then when it comes to taking the horse where he wants..its now up to the trainer and staff to say what happens.

seems back to front to me.

my thoughts are..i own a horse..i pay a pro to train it..and a pro to ride it....they are trusted and paid to do that..i keep my gob shut..but the day i want to take that horse where i want..as long as its good for the horse's welfare...i'll do so

thats what owning a horse should entail imo
 
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EC1 said:
i'm finding this thread really funny

a while ago i suggested that owners were the last people that should be telling trainers and jockeys what to do in races..they should leave it to those they pay to know their job...i was told by owners on here..and it was generally agreed by i assume non owners...that even if the owner is a complete tool and knows f00k all about racing that as they pay the bills the jockey and trainer should do as they are told.

even though that idea to me smacks of total stupidity on the owners part...it now seems that when an owner makes a decision he is entitled to..its wrong..not fair on trainer.

so..according to owners its acceptable to totally ignore a trainer and jockey re tactics..but then when it comes to taking the horse where he wants..its now up to the trainer and staff to say what happens.

seems back to front to me.

my thoughts are..i own a horse..i pay a pro to train it..and a pro to ride it....they are trusted and paid to do that..i keep my gob shut..but the day i want to take that horse where i want..as long as its good for the horse's welfare...i'll do so

thats what owning a horse should entail imo
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What if you see someone making a shite of your horse? Do you allow him to continue, as he is an expert?
 
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