King George VI And QE Stakes

Charlie D said:
Yes Gal, same as Dylan Thomas was better on fast than ground with cut


I thank those who thought that for the money i got when he won Arc
Click to expand...

I too had backed DT that day!!

But I think the Arc run proved how much better DT was with genuine fast ground. On fast ground at Ascot he was in a different league to Youmzain...where as in the Arc (while he was effective) it was much closer.
 
Is that the same Sagara that finished 3rd behind Dylan Thomas, Youmzain and ahead of Getaway in the Arc or are we talking about the fecked up one tha's now with Godolphin David???
 
Nice...

But sure you know best I am sure...I wonder why connections have put the horse away for an Autumn campaign avoiding a race like a King George that (bar the ground) would otherwise be made for him.
 
On the subject of the likely pace, here's a quote from Seamie Heffernan (who rides Macarthur):

"Red Rock Canyon is in there to make sure nobody has any excuses, you either stay the trip or you don't. Nobody wants a muddling race."
Click to expand...

So there you go.

If RRC ends up setting a slow pace, is that Heffernan putting us away or O'Donoghue fecking up (remember the Heffernan-ridden Song of Hiawatha not going fast enough in the Juddmonte last year, to the detriment of Dylan Thomas).
 
Charlie D said:
So your saying DT ran below form in Arc

What utter carp
Click to expand...

Yes because the likes of Youmzain, Getaway, Sagara are all within a couple of lengths of Dylan Thomas at his very best. All the ratings compilers have given Dylan Thomas’s King George win as a few pounds higher than his Arc run…but sure what do they know either. Simply because you disagree with me does not mean you are right…its called a difference in opinion. What piece of form suggests Dylan Thomas’s Arc run was his best?
 
I won't Charlie, I'll just not bother responding to when you seem to see anyone taking a differing opinion to you as a personal insult.

And regarding Curlin/Big Brown, I won't be telling you anything about them, I'm sure you know much more about either of them than I do, hence why I have said little about them before.
 
Galileo said:
Nice...

But sure you know best I am sure...I wonder why connections have put the horse away for an Autumn campaign avoiding a race like a King George that (bar the ground) would otherwise be made for him.
Click to expand...


I know the horse that ran an Arc 2nd, 2nd in KG behind DT is better than the one the one that won a carp PoW, a carp Tattersals, as to other i can only guess at the reason SoF is not running in KG, maybe they learnt from DT, that to win Arc, Breeders Cup, Japan Cup or whatever, a horse needs a Rest somewhere along line
 
Gareth Flynn said:
On the subject of the likely pace, here's a quote from Seamie Heffernan (who rides Macarthur):



So there you go.

If RRC ends up setting a slow pace, is that Heffernan putting us away or O'Donoghue fecking up (remember the Heffernan-ridden Song of Hiawatha not going fast enough in the Juddmonte last year, to the detriment of Dylan Thomas).
Click to expand...

The slower they go through the first 6 furlongs the less questions will be asked of Duke of Marmalade. O'Donoghue will surely set as slow a pace as he can get away with without the likes of Ask being asked to take him on, which will hardly be a dawdle but no more than a steady pace. Maybe ChrisB knows better but I really can't see Moore wanting to go to the front before the 4f mark. Alternatively O'Donoghue could lash off and take himself out of the race which might lead to enough head scratching behind to get a slow first half mile within the main contenders.

Surely just setting a good solid stamina testing clip would suit everybody but DoM, which doesn't seem a commercially sound decision.
 
Duke Of Marmalade has had three runs already (ran in the first Group 1 of the year), will run in the King George, probably then the Irish Champion, then possibly the Arc and for sure the Breeders Cup meeting. Does not need a break?

Dylan Thomas’s form tailed off in the Breeders Cup meeting due to the ground then the whole Japan/Hong Kong trip was a disaster from the start.

Like I said, Soldier Of Fortune and Dylan Thomas before him both handled ground was that not ideal….but to put in their very best performances they needed an ease and fast ground respectively. Visually this is backed up, the results and ratings also back it up. If last year’s Arc was on genuinely fast ground I feel Dylan Thomas would have been a much easier winner as he was in the King George.

But sure no point discussing it, you have had your say, what more is to be said….


DO- You might be right…but his highest rated performance came in the Irish Derby after running in the trials and Epsom.

 
Last edited:
Is this the same rating compilers who had Getaway ahead of Youmzain, joint with SoF after his thrashing of Sixties Icon


I thank them for making SoF a backable price in Coronation


I'm off now, if i have insullted you DJ or you Gal, i apologise, as i have a lot of time for your opinions, even though i may disagree strongly with them
 
DT was a 132 animal at his best which gave him a relatively big advantage class wise at Longchamp (if you take the view that SoF`s Irish Derby win was a tad overrated.) This means he was able to win an Arc without running to his best.
 
had a good look over this

I've backed Papal Bull @ 18/1 on Betfair which looks massive to me.

Purely on form on Fast ground over 12f he isn't far off the best horse here....and at that price...imo..it's a no brainer which one to support

The front end horses look vulnerable..simplified

Duke...big doubt for me at this trip
Youmzain...big doubt re going
Lucarno...big doubt re going
Ask...big doubt re going

good luck with your bets
 
Duke wins. One of Lucarno or Macarthur follows him home. Youmzain stays on for third.

Two tricasts for me.
 
Exactly. I have £80 on Youmzain at a shade under 9s and covered on the Duke at evens. They`re the only horses in the race with form anywhere near good enough for even an average King George.
 
In fairness, Lucarno is also a G1 horse, although that depends on your view of the Leger; he's the only possible value at the moment but I would switch to DoM if the drift continued, which is possible.
 
I reckon the ground was riding about between +3.56 and +2.83 today (haven't quite finalised a figure) but it's good to firm (Ascot's got one right:eek:). At about +3.75 to +4.00 you start calling it Firm.
 
Back
Top