King George VI Chase

"Probably"? Really?

Cue Card being seriously under-estimated in some quarters here. When alls said and done, probably the best horse Thistlecrack has ever beaten, is Cole Harden. OK, he hammered him, but Cue Card is in an altogether different league from anything Thistlecrack has met........ever.

I can see that line of thinking and started your post agreeing with you. However, Cue Card has wobbled badly over the last two in this race twice. From looking long odds on vs Siviniaco, and winning (losing?) a slow bicycle race from the last last year, when the likely winner i hindsight falling.

Im not sure how far clear Cue Card will need to be at the second last to be sure of victory. I cant see Thistlecrack not running through the line.
 
Maybe I should have been clearer, Hwkwing.

Thistlecrack's overall record and enthusiasm for his job command maximum respect, and if he is still within striking-distance two-out, then I agree - he could out-stay Cue Card.

For me, it's all about whether he can stay in contention that long; pitched in at this level after three starts in tuppeny-happeny novice races, and against a horse who is almost certainly one of the best chasers of the last 15 years or so. It's a real race to savour.
 
Last edited:
Road To Riches '50-50' to feature in King George.


A decision will be made on Road To Riches closer to the St Stephen's Day feature
A decision will be made on Road To Riches closer to the St Stephen's Day feature
Road To Riches is "50-50" to take his up his engagement in the 32Red King George VI Chase, according to trainer Noel Meade.

The dual Grade One winner featured amongst just seven horses confirmed for Kempton's St Stephen's Day feature, with the Colin Tizzard-trained pair of Cue Card and Thistlecrack taking top billing.

Road To Riches was a shade disappointing on his seasonal reappearance at Gowran Park, but has since undergone an operation after suffering from 'kissing spines'.

The Gigginstown House Stud-owned nine-year-old also holds an entry in the Lexus Chase at Leopardstown, a race he won in 2014, on 28 December.

Meade said: "I spoke to Eddie (O'Leary, Gigginstown racing manager) this morning and we said we'd leave him and make a decision later on.

"He's going to work in the morning and we'll see where we are after that. I'd say it's 50-50 at this stage and we'll probably leave it until declaration day.

"Hopefully he'll run in one or the other. He's been good and we've been happy with what he's been doing at home.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Cue Card is undoubtedly a cracking horse and on his day one of the best in recent years but if you look at his form objectively, its easy to find reasons to take him on. His absolute best form in the last few seasons has come on softer ground at Haydock or arguably in last years KG. Although I thought he was just the slightly better stayer of two reasonable but not out and out stayers.

Thistlecrack comes with all the doubts outlined by many but if he jumps, which I think he will, he has the engine and run style to beat his stablemate. On that basis i've backed Thistlecrack but not for big money. Its as close as the betting suggests imo and its a tough one to call.
 
I want Thistlecrack to win, but the race has to be considered a terrible betting proposition.
Both will start close to evens.
If tc jumps and travels it should have to much for cc.
If he doesn't cc is very likely to win.
 
I want Thistlecrack to win, but the race has to be considered a terrible betting proposition.
Both will start close to evens.
If tc jumps and travels it should have to much for cc.
If he doesn't cc is very likely to win.
On the contrary they are both odds against, it looks like the betting opportunity of the season to me!
 
Fu*ck it. Cards on the table time.

I really, really like Thistlecrack, but genuinely believe he has beaten a bunch of boats his entire career, and could be over-rated as a result. For me, the undoubted visual glitter of his performances, does not hide the turds that he has been beating.

I concede that my position is probably in-part due to the fact that I'm a contrarian wanker anyway, but I feel an increasing sense of unease about how highly and widely Thistlecrack is being lauded, when he has never faced - let alone beaten - a horse I would describe as genuinely top-class.

On this basis, I have an overwhelming compunction to take a stand against him, in a race like the King George. I'll be laying Win and Place.

PS. If someone would be kind enough to start gathering food-stamps on my behalf, that would be a very moving Christmas gesture.
 
Last edited:
Same as Grassy but witha couple of edits

Fu*ck it. Cards on the table time.

I really, really like Thistlecrack, but genuinely believe he has beaten a bunch of boats his entire career, and could be over-rated as a result. For me, the undoubted visual glitter of his performances, does not hide the turds that he has been beating.

I concede that my position is probably in-part due to the fact that I'm a BRILLIANT JUDGE, so I feel an increasing sense of unease about how highly and widely Thistlecrack is being lauded, when he has never faced - let alone beaten - a horse I would describe as genuinely top-class.

On this basis, I have an overwhelming compunction to take a stand against him, in a race like the King George. I'll be laying Win and Place.


Fisthopper:)

PS. If someone would be kind enough to start gathering food-stamps on my behalf, that would be a very moving Christmas gesture.
 
I really really like Thistlecrack, but really really love Cue Card

CC is the best chaser (officially?) around at the moment
Thistlecrack has the potential to be the best chaser around

As both Grassy and Fist so eloquently say, Thistle has yet to face a top class rival over a fence so at the likely prices CC has to be the bet
 
Paddy must be more powerful than Odin then, he has Mullins horses correctly predicted for years now. Paddy's Mullins moles are strong, more than your onion sandwich. Not unless RR changes that decision in the last days, then we won't see Faugheen at Kempton.

what was I thinking, of course RR has no influence on anything, he's just another clueless owner of WPMs.
 
Just want to put my thoughts on this race after my above rant.

I gather is very rare in jumps racing that we have this kind of situation, perhaps only when a novice comes into open company but this isn't the case as TC is a champion stayer over hurdles. Unlike what the above posters say, I continue to believe form over different sports is irrelevant. Yes he has 4 legs and he needs to stay but the different muscles that are solicited during a chase race and the fact that speed is not so relevant over fences vs jumping them, makes most of the formbook irrelevant when compared to hurdling. He was a class apart over timber but I agree those didn't took much beating and it puzzles me why RP rated his WH win higher than what Faugheen did in the ICH. I'd say if those 2 meet TC would be some lengths behind even without F at his best. Remember F got beat due to a culmination of factors like tactics by David M. on NC, hard prep which Mullins admitted, overconfidence by Ruby who disconsidered the turn of foot by a small flat type who was high class over flat and top class in his novice hurdle season. If half fit Faugheen meets TC over 3 miles the tactical won't matter, the turn of foot won't matter and Ruby won't by overconfident so only thing will matter is stamina. Comparison with the best there is over hurdles vs the best there is over fences(and not injured - Don) could be an indicator.

The only other situation in which the form is incomparable is over flat racing when a horse in UK goes to France and they meet in a big race where 1lb is important, how can you bet if the two are at the head of the market and very short odds. The only indicator could be the collateral form going back even 2 seasons.

Instead of going for one or the other its easier to simply pick another to snatch the 2nd spot and hope that maybe something happens and he has the required class to win it. The options are Silviniaco Conti. What ever happened to him? Dual winner of this race but at his best 10lb below CC at his best, could he get a place? Perhaps but his recent form has been despicable, getting beat 10 lengths by Valseur Lido is simply not acceptable even for his first run of the season. Can Nicholls get him back for a big run and grab that 2nd spot and maybe the big prize? I highly doubt it.
Next option is Josses Hill. In his case concessions have to be made for his last 2 seasons, his jumping was horrible in his novice days, a small miracle to get as close to 3rd in the Arkle. Just watched his run in the Ryanair and he made a terrible blunder at the 6-7th from home but he recovered from it and seemed to go well enough until the home straight when he became legless despite the attempts from the rider, The stamina doubts are obvious with him but I tend to go with the trainer when he's putting a horse with unproven form over a trip as I think he knows best and if he's to be my bet I also need to forget about his run in the Ryanair when truthfully he ran too bad to take at face value. Lots of form to forget about him but whats likable are his runs this season and especially in his last race he seemed that he could've gone another 4 furlongs, and those in behind weren't no mugs and he was conceding weight to them as well.

I've said it few weeks ago that TC connections would make a huge mistake going for the KG instead of simply waiting for the big one. What are trying to learn by going to the top league immediately? I think they're trying to gather whether to route him back over hurdles if he fails to beat CC because that means the chances are he'll be more susceptible for a beating in March against the other 2 former champions, admittedly both with question marks. His jumping wasn't perfect and made some big mistakes at some of the fences in his 3 races so again unlike the above posters I don't think you have to be very brave to bet against him given that he's unproven at this discipline and he's the same price of the 2nd best staying chaser in training. However you'd have to be brave to oppose CC who seems to be in form of his life and I'd rather do that with a 12/1 shot like Josses Hill.
 
“If I had the choice I’d ride Thistlecrack,” Ruby Walsh said. “The likely tempo of the race and the quality of this King George field is his biggest test yet over fences. But I think he’ll prove up to it.”
 
Good for Ruby who has never sat on the horse or raced against him which means he's no more idea than the rest of us
 
Last edited:
Terrible Rant Augie re faugheen........fook Paddy he is not the punters friend and certainly not yours

However the plan is out the bag.......Faugheen will run in 1 poxy race in the New Year against nothing (Not a champion Hurdle contender in sight) and straight to Cheltenham. The rest is all BS.

I don't think you were wrong about Thistlecrack and it being a mistake going for the King George but things changed drastically when Coneygree opted out.

Take a look at the race now. Without Thistlecrack it would be a 2 horse race that surely Cue Card would be 2/7 to win.

Luck is with them now they have an option as you say......can always go World Hurdle if Cue Card kicks his ass big time.


But how thick are Cue Card punters is my question?

If anyone believes Cue Card will kick Thistlecrack into touch and he is not a Gold Cup horse why back Cue Card?

You can of course but if you are that convinced then I'd be grabbing all the 6/1 I could about him for the World Hurdle.

They could of course convince themselves that it would be different at Cheltenham if they lose in the King George

You bet your ass it will be if Djak and Coney and Don turn up.

So for Cue Card supporters the bet has to be Cue Card PLUS Thistlecrack WH 6/1 2 singles and a double :0)
 
That doesn't mean someone should post it like it means something

My point is most jockeys are terrible judges of race outcomes unless it's something they ride themselves.

Francome McCoy Ruby are typical examples who couldn't pick their own noses
 
Good for Ruby who has never sat on the horse or raced against him which means he's no more idea than the rest of us

I'd say he has a much better idea than any of us! You don't think he can judge by watching, or by talking to other jocks? He can only comment on horses he ridden on or against? Some utter bollix gets spouted on here.
 
Last edited:
He was also on Shaneshill, who was behind Thistlecrack, when Killultagh Vic won the G1 staying novice hurdle at Punchestown in 2015
 
I'd say he has a much better idea than any of us! You don't think he can judge by watching, or by talking to other jocks? He can only comment on horses he ridden on or against? Some utter bollix gets spouted on here.

What the fick is Bollocks about saying most jockeys are terrible tipsters.

I'd rather have a $ for every time a jockey gets it wrong when asked what will win a race he himself is not riding in.

Sure he might have an advantage because eg Barry told him MTOY worked like a pig the other day but he's not going to tell us is he?

For Ruby to say Thistlecrack will win is meaningless he's guessing and he has no better idea than the punter on the street.

His trainer said the other day he hasn't got a clue which one will win so if anyone is spouting crap it's you.

As I said before AP rode more winners than anyone in history and if you follow his tips you will end up in the poor house.

Ruby knows about Willies horses and he wouldn't have a clue if Thistlecrack worked brilliantly yesterday or din't work at all.

His opinion on the King George is just that an opinion and people posting and saying BUT Ruby said this means fook all.
 
I think it is a risk but one can see why they are running . If his jumping falls apart at proper Grade 1 chasing pace they have time to go back to the Stayers Hurdle so long as he does not cause himself a mischief.
 
By the way the quote by Ruby came from an article which contained a quote from Paddy Brennan re Cue Card who unlike Ruuby he had just ridden the horse.

"I went down to Colin Tizzard's this morning and sat on him for the first time since winning the Betfair Chase last month - and he felt great," Brennan told his 32red.com blog.
"In fact, he felt as good, if not better, than ever. I schooled him over fences, he jumped great, and I couldn't be happier with him."

One of them is a crap tipster we'll find out which one on Monday
 
Back
Top