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Leopardstown Sat Feb 6th 2016

viking said:
Poor Valseur. Snatches defeat from what looked like a certain victory


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Sympathy for the horse and jockey but as no physical harm occured I've no sympathy for o'leary after the mid week article wondering where the money had come from because it apprently had little chance of beating road to riches.
 
I was a fan of his form with Apache Stronghold and you cannot cannot take any betting advice from a ******* owner. Just can't do it.
 
I don't see why not. Ran well in the JLT last season (jockey lost whip in run in) and whilst yesterday sort of indicated he'll stay further than three miles the difference in the merit of the opposition between the two races surely means the Ryanair makes more sense. And I do like the Imperial Commander strategy of Ryanair-Gold Cup in consecutive years.
 
Willie wants to run both Valseur Lido and Don Poli (and Vautour, Djakadam and On His Own) in the Gold Cup. Purely on yesterday's evidence you'd think that Giggi are more likely to nominate Road To Riches for the Ryanair but I do think that using any of yesterday's Leopardstown form for Cheltenham is likely to be a short-cut to the poor house.
 
archie said:
Willie wants to run both Valseur Lido and Don Poli (and Vautour, Djakadam and On His Own) in the Gold Cup. Purely on yesterday's evidence you'd think that Giggi are more likely to nominate Road To Riches for the Ryanair but I do think that using any of yesterday's Leopardstown form for Cheltenham is likely to be a short-cut to the poor house.
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why would you not run RTR in the GC based on yesterdays race though? There is no horse could have won from the front end in that race. He showed last year that he could run a decent pace..not stupid pace like yesterday.. and still be there with Coneygree. Would be madness not to run him in the GC..last years GC form trumps yesterdays nonsense form by some way.
 
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All yesterday's race showed was that Valseur Lido stays better than RtR in the heavy because RtR needs to run prominently and takes too much out of himself in those conditions. Giggi want something to run in their race and, if choosing between the two, would surely put the stayer in the Gold Cup.
 
it didn't show me that VL is a better stayer imo. I'd have RTR the better stayer judged on yesterdays race..having a pace collapse in front of you doesn't make you a better stayer..it just means you ran more efficiently ...if it did then Carlingford is the best stayer in the game.

A pace like yesterdays destroys horses..look where on her own finished..in reality RTR should have finished nearly tailed off..the fact he didn't showed he stays well.
 
Euronymous said:
I don't see why not. Ran well in the JLT last season (jockey lost whip in run in) and whilst yesterday sort of indicated he'll stay further than three miles the difference in the merit of the opposition between the two races surely means the Ryanair makes more sense. And I do like the Imperial Commander strategy of Ryanair-Gold Cup in consecutive years.
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I think everything WPM says about this horse is that 3M+ is where he's most effective. While I agree he ran well in the JLT last year, arguably that was at a distance short of his optimum. The further he goes the better he'll be, so dropping in trip would seem to be illogical to me. The Ryanair-Gold Cup strategy would have made sense for Djakadam last year. Alas, that's not the way Mullins operates.

I'll be amazed if he goes for the Ryanair personally.
 
Race pace line for the leader at each fence for the hennessey yesterday

Lengths faster than efficient pace are minus figures

F1-F4F4-F7
F7-F10
.-23
 ..-5
 ...-1
 ....-3
 .... 9
 ...17

<tbody>
[TD="width: 62"] F10-F14 [/TD]
[TD="width: 57"] F14-F16 [/TD]
[TD="width: 61"] F16-FIN [/TD]

</tbody>
 
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wilsonl said:
Let's Dance is a she EC and a for me it's a pointer to just how high connections regard for Limini is that they're avoiding her and not planning on running Let's Dance in the new mares novice hurdle where she wouldn't be carrying a winners penalty and would be receiving a 4yo old's allowance.

By running in different races they're obviously increasing their chances of taking home even more prizes so they either think they have a chance of reversing the form on Saturday and in the Triumph but realise that another gallant second - thus still avoiding the winners penalty - would give them two very strong hands in the mares novice, therefore making her a cracking e/w bet against Limini.
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She's crying out for a step up in trip as well Wilson. I was hoping to get Limini turned over but she's looking like one of the more solid wagers of the meeting.
 
Pretty much made all and held on for a gutsy win only to fatally break down as it crossed the line. Very sad indeed.
 
wilsonl said:
Pretty much made all and held on for a gutsy win only to fatally break down as it crossed the line. Very sad indeed.
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Does this not leave a sour taste in the mouth of punters and lovers of the game on here? I know it's part of the game and no blame can be attributed to the jockey as it was a great ride but I don't know; I feel pretty indifferent to the game after witnessing that. It's different to a horse falling and breaking a limb or neck. That I can deal with but YMKM literally ran himself to death. He looks to have broken down badly but did he also have a heart attack the way he went down after the line? Never saw a horse go down like that without some internal complications.

I thought it was a terrible end for such a brave animal. The animal rights crowd must be rubbing their hands together as they could not have a better advert for their side of the argument. Poor horse.
 
I agree it was extremely hard to watch and yes, the tree huggers will undoubtedly use it to beat the sport with but I don't know enough about horses health to offer any further opinion than that.

If I had to defend it - and we don't know there is anything to defend - then I'd say that we hear stories of marathon runners collapsing as they cross the line but AFAIK there are no calls to ban those races. People will say that marathon runners chose to race themselves but as we know on here, race horses, while being "forced" to race, enjoy a life of relative luxury as a result.
 
wilsonl said:
I agree it was extremely hard to watch and yes, the tree huggers will undoubtedly use it to beat the sport with but I don't know enough about horses health to offer any further opinion than that.

If I had to defend it - and we don't know there is anything to defend - then I'd say that we hear stories of marathon runners collapsing as they cross the line but AFAIK there are no calls to ban those races. People will say that marathon runners chose to race themselves but as we know on here, race horses, while being "forced" to race, enjoy a life of relative luxury as a result.
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I'm not condoning the tree huggers and their views at all. They are out of touch and do not understand country life as a whole but that race can be dolled up for their propaganda without too much editing.

I've seen horses collapse and kick the bucket in parade rings and all the rest but Saturday's race will live long in my memory just for the sheer horror of the last ten yards. Maybe I need to grow a pair and man up!!
 
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Just bad bad luck.

The poor jockey was completely dejected and the horse had jumped fence to fence .

I remember a small trainer having a two year old winner collapse and die after winning a maiden Irish Derby weekend in the early nineties.

That was soul destroying also; he never had one that good again.
 

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