Netanyahu's victims

perhaps you'd like to explain why you want to bring this into this debate. I thought this debate was about what's happening in Gaza, not the holocaust,
I believe it is justified to suggest a historical perspective ( and analogy) to the issue -- particularly when posters on here are obsessing about child casualty rates.
Is it not fair to draw parallels between Hitler's genocidal pursuit of the Jews and the stated aim of the Hamas gang ruling Gaza to finish that madman's work?
70 years ago, Jews as an entire people were almost wiped out while they did not have the resources to resist their extermination. Today they have, and will never again bow down to another Nazi-worshipping outfit bent on their destruction. Who can blame them.


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rather than ignore the central points try answering them. And also accept the challenge of offering YOUR solution to this conflict that you were aggressively pursuing Grassy for.
He is blue in the face from offering a solution -- stop firing the rockets into Israel !
 
I believe it is justified to suggest a historical perspective ( and analogy) to the issue -- particularly when posters on here are obsessing about child casualty rates.
Is it not fair to draw parallels between Hitler's genocidal pursuit of the Jews and the stated aim of the Hamas gang ruling Gaza to finish that madman's work?
70 years ago, Jews as an entire people were almost wiped out while they did not have the resources to resist their extermination. Today they have, and will never again bow down to another Nazi-worshipping outfit bent on their destruction. Who can blame them.


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I don't really think any comparisons are valid like this..death is death...you can't make 50 deaths less important by saying 100 is worse.

But the holocaust is imo why the Israeli's do actually respond disproportionately when threatened..i think they are saying with their actions..we'll never be treated badly again and if anyone tries we'll hit and hit hard..in fact we'll go right over the top with it just to hammer home we don't take no sh*te no more. I can understand that, but its wrong if you want to be called a civilized society.

I'll just say again to Clive...instead of killing children.just go in and kill those who deserve to be killed...fight like men.

Lets hope something comes of current ceasefire anyway....can't see it tbh..but you can always hope
 
Is it not fair to draw parallels between Hitler's genocidal pursuit of the Jews and the stated aim of the Hamas gang ruling Gaza to finish that madman's work?

Even Hitler did not state that as an aim. they do.

Without doubt hamas will look to use chemical or biological weapons against isreali cities. They see the extermination of jews as "gods work". Its not rhetoric. it is drummed into them and many muslims world wide right from the off

They are filth
 
It's pretty hard to 'debate' when you come across as not actually understanding this conflict Clive. Do you actually understand it historically, politically, socially, religiously, culturally, geographically, morally, etc??? And if so, do you understand it from both sides? Because if you do please show at least some sign you do.
Thats patronising crap.

Given that you have made statements (starving population) which are complete garbage, then i suspect that your dismal lack of grasp of even the basics of the present situation makes debating anything to do with the past a complete waste of time

You clearly deal with the present conflict first. All this drivel about "the past" is simply a way of deflecting any responsibility from the (admired?) hamas fascists

believing that israel should do nothing about constant attack is a warped and sinister view. Only a cretin would believe that hamas would stop following any concessions. They have ONE aim

A cop out, as we have said before
 
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And do you also deliberately choose to ignore that the Israeli military are taking Palestinian land and resettling it by force.

Clueless

In gaza?

Get a basic grasp or dont bother
 
No, in the West Bank Clive? I even referred you to the post where I said it. I can but try, but it seems impossible. Perhaps you should look in a mirror when you say 'get a grasp'!

Maybe another watch of the Life of Brian to help you form your arguments rather than falling back into character when you try to debate is what's needed Clive. At least Python attempted to do their own version of events in Palestine with humour rather than a weird brand of frustrated aggression.

Incidentally, I don't admire Hammas at all, but I'm firm in my view that the actions Israel are taking are disproportionate and are designed to escalate the conflict further.

Thinking about it, watching The Life Of Brian is maybe the solution is to make the Israeli leadership and Hammas get the perspective on what utter fools they are. At least it'll be no less effective than the suggestions made on here so far!

Incidentally, the 'one aim' you talk about has come from Netenyahu's lips recently, whereas the Palestinian Government have repeated their wish to negotiate. Why do you so flagrantly twist the facts?
 
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Hamas is not fighting for the west bank

They kill fatah supporters. They throw them off rooftops

Hamas demand that the blockade is lifted (to import more and deadlier missiles)BEFORE negotiations

They resolutely refuse to drop their demand (as in the charter) that the state of israel is exterminated before any negotiation. That is an impossible position to start from
 
Hammas and Fatah were negotiating and have become much closer despite their obvious differences as I'm sure you know and choose to deliberately ignore Clive.

An alliance between Hammas and Fatah is something Israel fears and may possibly be the real reason for Isreal's assault.
 
An alliance between Hammas and Fatah is something Israel fears and may possibly be the real reason for Isreal's assault.

Absolute rubbish. illogical

You simply cannot accept that Israel is being continuously attacked can you?
 
Do you follow anything Clive or do you just make it up as you go along?

Yes I can, just as I accept that Israel has resettled parts of the West Bank by force, and the Israeli military were constantly running military campaigns in Gaza before this conflict erupted again.

You must have serious neck ache now given you can only look one way!

Quite frankly you're on a subject you haven't got a clue what you're talking about, and you prove it more and more with every post. Putting small pieces of information in the hands of some people is clearly a dangerous thing!
 
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Do you follow anything Clive or do you just make it up as you go along?
LOL.
This is rich, coming from someone who merits a PhD in freestyle ad-libbing; and for his competence in concocting falsehoods and portraying such as "facts" much evidenced in his posts to this thread.
And someone who is keen to introduce the red-herring of the West Bank settlements into a discussion on the Gaza Strip to deflect and divert when he knows full well both are separate regions at opposite sides of Israel.

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and has absolutely no grip at all on what hamas is about allied to a genuine belief that israel has no right to defend itself
 
LOL.
This is rich, coming from someone who merits a PhD in freestyle ad-libbing; and for his competence in concocting falsehoods and portraying such as "facts" much evidenced in his posts to this thread.
And someone who is keen to introduce the red-herring of the West Bank settlements into a discussion on the Gaza Strip to deflect and divert when he knows full well both are separate regions at opposite sides of Israel.

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And the falsehoods are what Icebreaker? Do I need to refer you to my response or are you like Clive and can't grasp the basics of reading? And worse the basics of this conflict.

Neither of you appear to have any understanding of this conflict, but some kind of illogical pride means you both continue to utter nonsense, which each an every time falls apart with some absolute basics.

If you really want me to go back and pick apart pretty much everything you've said I will. Your choice if you want me to out you. If not, add something to the debate rather than chipping in with nothing more than pathetic snipes.

For example I'm still waiting for you on what you believe is the answer to this conflict. Something which you were happy to jump on Clive's bandwagon when he was attacking Grassy for the same answer.

Little boys and playgrounds hey! :whistle:
 
and has absolutely no grip at all on what hamas is about allied to a genuine belief that israel has no right to defend itself

Actually I do Clive which is why I'm quite happy to go toe to toe with you. I also have a deep understanding of Israeli politics. I'm also fully aware of the intricacies of this War over the long term, something you appear not to be. And unlike you and your sideshow Icebreaker I have no bias or affiliation either way which means I can make balanced responses.

Your answer to this conflict is for Hammas to stop firing missiles. Surely you must realise that a schoolboy who has studied Middle Eastern Politics would realise how pathetic that really is.

And as for me stating that Israel has no right to defend itself perhaps you'd like to point out to me anyone else who happens to be reading this where I wrote this. You'll find that quite difficult as you will with most of your other assertions on this thread. Just saying stuff doesn't constitute a debate Clive it just make them look foolish. Most people learn that and grow out of it at school for crissake!

Keep going though, don't give up, this is fun. However, maybe you could try giving anyone reading a sense that you have the first idea what you're talking about. A bit of research and a factual response wouldn't go amiss, and that way we can properly debate what's going on here, rather than you scrambling with your opaque deflection.

If you want to dig yourself out of the hole there's a better way to do it!
 
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And the falsehoods are what Icebreaker? Do I need to refer you to my response or are you like Clive and can't grasp the basics of reading?
Do you really want me to repeat them again? Honestly? Have you no sense of embarrassment?
Okay then, since you push it, I will ................. for the final time.

"Whole communities starving" ....................... Falsehood.
"No electricity in Gaza" .................................Falsehood
"Israel controls the water" ............................Falsehood.

Those three were contained in one single sentence of your first post to this thread.
You may dress it up whatever way you like and attempt to deflect by waffle and blurring, but those were the bald statements you made. And they are erroneous and untrue.



If you really want me to go back and pick apart pretty much everything you've said I will. Your choice if you want me to out you.
Absolutely, please do. I look forward to reading your deconstructions. Truly.

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Israel can do whatever they like to defend their nation and people against those (many) that want to eliminate them.
With Hamas, Syria, Hezbollah, Iran, ISIS (or whatever the Islamist maggots call themselves now) and most other nations (and folk on here) against them......what do you expect?
Keep going Israel until the job is done!!
 
Although he doesn't address the current escalation which is appalling from both sides, Grey is absolutely spot on. Israel continues to annexe land in the West Bank with no right to do so and refuses to negotiate. Whereas the Palestinian Government continues to reiterate its desire to negotiate. It had already enforced a blockade in Gaza which means no electricity on top of abject poverty and whole communities literally starving. in addition it controls the water and restricted the 6 mile fishing zone to 3 miles. Literally blowing any fishing boat that encroached further out of the water. All this at the point where Gaza is verging on a humanitarian disaster.

Hammas can't keep the terrorists in order as Clive says but neither has the Israeli Army respected previous ceasefires on the southern border. In fact the Hammas missile strikes were triggered by Israel arresting/kidnapping hundreds of Hammas officials on top of the imposed blockade. What level of provocation do those of you making the provocative statements on here belive Gaza should take before it responds by the only means at its disposal I wonder? And are some of you really so naive that you are prepared to take sound bites to form your opinions rather than genuinely understand what is happening? Propaganda is a dangerous thing in the minds of lazy people.

Let me try and create some perspective rather than try to score points. If someone cut off my electric, threatened my family, took my food to the point of starvation, kidnapped my friends, and they kept on doing it and wouldn't listen to any reason, I think I may also be provoked into a violent response if all I had left was a gun. So Using Clive's eloquence. Difficult?!

As for a 'Hammas Charter'. Seriously! They have consistently stated their willingness to negotiate whereas the Israeli Government continues to advance further beyond its borders in the West Bank and East Jerusalem and claim land that isn't there's, continuing their intent to colonise Palestine. Netanyahu's Government have no intention to negotiate, and will not stop until they have full control of the West Bank and Gaza.

I'm not religious or have any affinity to either Country. Nor am I stupid. I have followed the history of this conflict closely, not just when it makes headlines, and Netenyahu makes Putin look like a pussycat.

Still in the playground, and no change from whats becoming a predictable response and attitude. Oh we'll...............

Just to save any confusion for anyone who doesn't know what you're referring to, the post you reference is above.

I clarified the electricity statement with hard facts later which youve completely ignored for the sake of effect yet again. Do I need to do it again in words of one syllable as you clearly didn't read it or understand it. I'm not sure which?

When I talk about communities starving, perhaps you'd like to enlighten me with your definition of starving. Mine is quite simple. What's yours? For information the current estimate is that more than 400,000 Palestinans are in urgent need of food, water and shelter.

And clearly, if you could actually read, my post with regards water is talking about the ocean and the ability to fish. I've re-posted it to save you the arduous task of finding it. Shall I try posting that one in words of one syllable too?

Then perhaps you'd like to explain how my responses have been waffle and blurring. Is that clear enough for you, or do I need to put it in an even simpler form for your comprehension? If so I will until you finally stop repeating yourself, and to save everyone from getting utterly bored.

Now, if you've finally finished deflecting lets see if you can actually add something intelligent to the debate and lets hear your solution you were so keen to demand from Grassy, or are you still going to keep repeating yourself instead?

Hmmmm, it seems like Harry has now joined yourself and Clive to express an opinion that the Palestinian people should be wiped out. Given your previous tone, I presume that's your solution or am I wrong? And if I am what do you think Israel should do and how far should they go?
 
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The FACTS are, Israel has bombed the Gaza power supply, and in a happy coincidence accuses Hammas of bombing part of the supply fed from Israel! As such there is now limited supply coming from Israel, none generated in Gaza, and a small amount coming from Egypt. In all Gaza has less than 50% of the basic electricity supply needed. Anyone care to suggest what that would do to London.

Presumably this, that i wrote when you asked me to clarify, is the waffle and blurring you refer to!

Ho hum. I was going to say nice try. But it's not even that! Back of the class again Icebreaker.
 
Just to save any confusion for anyone who doesn't know what you're referring to, the post you reference is above.
Yes, that is correct. But repeating the falsehoods a second time does not add any legitimacy to them. They are still untruths.

I clarified the electricity statement with hard facts later youve completely ignored for the sake of effect yet again. Do I need to do it again in words of one syllable as you clearly didn't read it or understand it.
You may have clarified to your own satisfaction, but you have not corrected your original claim, and have not admitted the falsehood ( ie, there is no electricity in Gaza).



When I talk about communities starving, perhaps you'd like to enlighten me with your definition of starving. Mine is quite simple. What's yours?
Mine is the commonly accepted definition; starvation is a condition beyond malnutrition which invariably causes death. By any marker, "whole communities" are not starving to death in Gaza.



And clearly, if you could actually read, my post with regards water is talking about the ocean and the ability to fish. I've re-posted it to save you the arduous task of finding it. Shall I try posting that one in words of one syllable too?
Then you should have specified "sea" water or "coastal" water. How was anyone expected to interpret other than you meant drinking water when you said "it (Israel) controls the water". But I do think this recent "clarification" by you is just one more effort by you to cover tracks and disown your original statement.



Frankly, I'm becoming fatigued by your tone in recent days. Your arrogance and condescending attitude is becoming tiresome. Your regular references to children, classrooms and "comprehension" is offensive. You come across as a know-it-all and elitist individual without any appreciation for an opposing point of view; and seeing that you cannot debate as an adult should, I'm beginning to believe that I would rather not engage in any further dialogue with you on the subject matter of this thread.

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Have to agree ice. Now im obliged to respond to the claim that i suggested the palestinians should be "wiped out" . Or should i bother?
 
Hell yeah, forgot about that -- " yourself and Clive to express an opinion that the Palestinian people should be wiped out. Given your previous tone, I presume that's your solution or am I wrong"

What a cheap and offensive thing to say. Doesn't deserve to be dignified with a response, imho.

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I find some of your comments utterly callous and warped.

Maruco, ask yourself why you are bothering.
 
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