Netanyahu's victims

If this was a different country doing what they are doing, they would be bombed to pieces (I would strongly support this) by the morally-powerful West. I think everyone should watch this video and listen to some facts very, very carefully.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/30/world-disgrace-gaza-un-shelter-school-israel

Netanyahu needs to be stopped.

What is even funnier is the West putting sanctions left right and centre on Russia, yet what have they done in comparison to Israel? Do Russians bomb UN schools and hospitals, full of sleeping children? Netanyahu, his government, and all the Israeli's who support their government's actions, are utter scum.
 
Ha ha! Clive did tell me that he agrees with most things I post on these threads but doesn't want to come across as a softy so hence takes the line he does :)
 
Hamm said:
Ha ha! Clive did tell me that he agrees with most things I post on these threads but doesn't want to come across as a softy so hence takes the line he does :)
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Tough choice. Come across as a softie, or a complete tit.

Has he chosen wisely? :D
 
Hamm said:
If this was a different country doing what they are doing, they would be bombed to pieces (I would strongly support this) by the morally-powerful West. I think everyone should watch this video and listen to some facts very, very carefully.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/30/world-disgrace-gaza-un-shelter-school-israel

Netanyahu needs to be stopped.

What is even funnier is the West putting sanctions left right and centre on Russia, yet what have they done in comparison to Israel? Do Russians bomb UN schools and hospitals, full of sleeping children? Netanyahu, his government, and all the Israeli's who support their government's actions, are utter scum.no chamce
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So you would bomb a country which is being missiled? As I said before, there is a definite assumption that the jews should take it. 4000 missiles this year isn't it?

Russia? What do you think Russia would so if Georgia say launched thousands of missiles at them?

Oh and before anyone complains about reference to jews rather than Israelis, that is the language of the Hamas brothers. Get used to it

And given that you want to get into the stupid whatabout crap what would have been your solution for the muslim genocide in sudan and the slsughter in sri lanka

"Oh we mustn't get involved"

Syria? 200000 killed there? "We mustn't get involved"

the left remained silent on these far worse cases. As I said before...
 
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What is always striking is how so many on the left find it impossible to attach any blame to hamas. No blame whatsoever. Unilaterally missile a country and it's just fine ...provided you are an Islamist

What is it about the anti-democratic, violent, bigoted, authoritarian, Jew hating, west hating, women hating, islamists that appeals so much to so many in the left ?
 
clivex said:
What is it about the anti-democratic, violent, bigoted, authoritarian, Jew hating, west hating, women hating, islamists that appeals so much to so many in the left ?
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This is so true. I consider myself Left and I don't understand it either -- I don't understand why my socialist brothers regard with tolerance this mediaeval cult of the sword that is Islamicism in general and Hamas in particular.
I don't understand why the only secular, democratic, open and free state in the region which is Israel is regularly vilified.
And I don't think that the Left in the West realise the fascist ideology that is at the core of Hamas.

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Clive, do you think the bombing of the UN hospital and schools (which the UN have confirmed have never housed weapons) is a war crime?
 
clivex said:
What is always striking is how so many on the left find it impossible to attach any blame to hamas. No blame whatsoever. Unilaterally missile a country and it's just fine ...provided you are an Islamist

What is it about the anti-democratic, violent, bigoted, authoritarian, Jew hating, west hating, women hating, islamists that appeals so much to so many in the left ?
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Here's the gap in your understanding.

You see criticism of Israel as de-facto support for Hamas. It simply isn't that linear an argument.
 
But a U.N. guy yesterday ( on Al Jazeera ) was saying that there were rockets found in one-or-two of their hospitals/schools -- and that they (U.N. staff ) had to remove them or make them safe themselves. I heard him.
 
Grasshopper said:
Here's the gap in your understanding.

You see criticism of Israel as de-facto support for Hamas. It simply isn't that linear an argument.
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no I dont but failure and refusal to attribute any blame whatsoever to hamas for current situation is beyond comprehesion unless we are talking about full support

islamists fo hold great appeal for many on the left. As icebreaker says it is certainly not all but the nature of the society and focus on those they hold bigoted views about is common ground
 
Both sides are to blame.

Hamas for their head-in-the-sand intransigence about the legitimacy of the State of Israel and its right to exist, and for deploying tactics which worsen, rather than improve, the lives of those they purport to represent.

Israel are cuplable for their continued refusal to deal with the elected Palestinian government, their by-the-balls blockade of the Gaza strip (which leaves Hamas with no room to maneouvre), and their continued development on Occupied territories - all of which flies in the face of their oft-stated claim of wanting a two-state solution.
 
icebreaker said:
But a U.N. guy yesterday ( on Al Jazeera ) was saying that there were rockets found in one-or-two of their hospitals/schools -- and that they (U.N. staff ) had to remove them or make them safe themselves. I heard him.
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Link please.
 
"The United Nations has found troves of rockets hidden in three of its schools since the conflict began. “We condemn the group or groups who endangered civilians by placing these munitions in our school,” said Chris Gunness, spokesman for the U.N. Relief and Works Agency"

"The international organization also found 20 additional rockets at another of its schools during an inspection, calling it one more “flagrant violation of the inviolability” of the premises."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...weapons-inside-hospitals-mosques-and-schools/


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Fair enough, but does this alone justify Israel bombing these places, in the full knowledge that civilians (and children) are almost certainly going to perish?

It's the lack of circumspection - dare I say it, caring - that grates with so many, and actively works against Israel.
 
icebreaker said:
But a U.N. guy yesterday ( on Al Jazeera ) was saying that there were rockets found in one-or-two of their hospitals/schools -- and that they (U.N. staff ) had to remove them or make them safe themselves. I heard him.
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That's nice. Does that mean it's ok to target those facilities without regard as to who may currently be there?
 
Grasshopper said:
Fair enough, but does this alone justify Israel bombing these places, in the full knowledge that civilians (and children) are almost certainly going to perish?

It's the lack of circumspection - dare I say it, caring - that grates with so many, and actively works against Israel.
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Edit: I should add that Hamas are clearly wankers for storing rockets in these types of facilities in the first place.
 
No one desires palestinian deaths more than hamas and they will take every action possible to maximise casulties. Little doubt much if this is tied up in jihad and matyrdom idealogy.

israel has to tread a fine line for sure.
 
Flagship uberalles said:
That's nice. Does that mean it's ok to target those facilities without regard as to who may currently be there?
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Oh, I do think the Israelis have regard as to the casualty make-up. Don't they mass leaflet the citizenry in the immediate locale, and text message and broadcast radio warnings of an impending strike? Did the USAAF adopt similar preventative measures before their regular napalm carpet bombing raids over swathes of Vietnam and Cambodia? Did the allies do it before causing an incendiary firestorm at Dresden resulting in tens of thousands of civilian deaths in one night?
In truth, I cannot think of any other army in a war environment that has given such notification or apprisal prior to engagement as the Israelis have in the current conflict.
 
Maybe they could expand the text service to include details of how Israeli embassies worldwide are spinning the latest deaths.
 
It was wrong and us criticism is significant but when you fire thousands of missiles and declare war on another state, what do you expect?
 
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