Netanyahu's victims

Grasshopper said:
Didn't Israel immediately start blockading Gaza when Hamas were voted into power as part of a democratic election?
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Yet again you dodge answering a straightforward question -- preferring instead to muddy the waters by introducing maguffins.
Once more repeating myself:
1) Are there Jewish settlements or any Jewish inhabitants in Gaza?
2) Since 2005 and up to this July, were there any Israeli army units in Gaza?

Earlier, you claimed that Israel is/was an occupying power -- I only ask you to justify this claim.
 
Grasshopper said:
many of the principal contributors here have no desire to discuss or propose a way forward
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I had thought the way ahead was made abundantly clear in the course of the thread -- Hamas must stop launching daily rocket attacks on Israel; must stop using tunnels to infiltrate suicide attackers into the country; and must learn to live in peaceful co-existence ( if not in harmony) with its neighbour.
 
icebreaker said:
I had thought the way ahead was made abundantly clear in the course of the thread -- Hamas must stop launching daily rocket attacks on Israel; must stop using tunnels to infiltrate suicide attackers into the country; and must learn to live in peaceful co-existence ( if not in harmony) with its neighbour.
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....and accept the will of Israel.
 
clivex and icebreaker, it's your turn to answer a simplistic question or two.

How much further would the Israeli onslaught on Gaza have to be taken before even you would accept that it is disproportionate? How many more casualties are you prepared to tolerate?
 
Grey said:
clivex and icebreaker, it's your turn to answer a simplistic question or two.

How much further would the Israeli onslaught on Gaza have to be taken before even you would accept that it is disproportionate? How many more casualties are you prepared to tolerate?
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No .how many casulties are hamas and their supporters prepared to accept? Hamas clearly as many as possible. The ball is in their court. No rockets or tunnels no israeli attack

as far as I am concerned nothing would be better than if it stopped now. I would also suggest a unilateral ceasefire by israel whic would of course be broken by hamas but would quickly put the onus on them to change tack.
 
Grey said:
Are you suggesting that the Israel Tom is playing with and being especially hard on the Gaza Jerry in order to tell Obama off for talking to Iran?
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Not as black-and-white that. But yes, I feel there could be contributing factors to the Isreali over-aggression.

I've seen many of their spokesman wheeled out on programmes like Newsnight to keep hammering home the notion that Britain, the U.S or any other Western country would copy their millitary actions if they were under similiar attack from rockets.

I defy anybody to tell me that the surrounding middle eastern geopolitical picture would have had no effect or impact on their decision to do what they've done?

I do think that the reason that this particular conflict has been so ghastly is in part due to the increasing instability in the region.

Again, lack of action in Syria, hesitation over how to approach ISIS in Iraq - these incidents would mean Isreal will view their position as a more go-it-alone one, with less consultation needed with their Western friends who are still in a state of flux strategically in that region..

Grasshopper - Weak on foreign policy, not a 'weak president'. I think he should be commended for trying to reform health care over there. A great speaker, a man who inspires people, but the decision to do a deal with Putin over Syria last year was no good.
 
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Grey said:
clivex and icebreaker, it's your turn to answer a simplistic question or two.

How much further would the Israeli onslaught on Gaza have to be taken before even you would accept that it is disproportionate? How many more casualties are you prepared to tolerate?
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I would consider an Israeli tactical nuclear strike on Gaza to be disproportionate.
 
Yes.
I believe that Israel has been admirably restrained to date.

Can we look at the meaning/definition of the word "proportionate" ?
Over the past decade, Hamas has fired 13,000 rockets at Israel, so a "proportionate" response by Israel would be to fire 13,000 rockets back. But they haven't, or have they?
Their reaction has been disproportionally small, I would contend.

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if i throw 200 darts over my neighbours fence..then he throws one hand grenade back...that's fair enough isn't it?....after all i threw 200 missiles ...he only threw one...killled me and blew half of back of house away like...but hey...he who throws darts
 
Then you shouldn't have been engaging in anti-social behaviour throwing darts at him over many years 'specially when you knew he had a grenade stashed in his garden shed.
Putting yerself and your family at risk like that knowing that eventually some day he would get pissed off -- tut tut.
 
icebreaker said:
Then you shouldn't have been engaging in anti-social behaviour throwing darts at him over many years 'specially when you knew he had a grenade stashed in his garden shed.
Putting yerself and your family at risk like that knowing that eventually some day he would get pissed off -- tut tut.
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well..he asked for the darts.. he shouldn't have kept moving his fence and pinching my land;)
 
Clive, you seem to think this entire conflict started with Hamas firing missiles for no reason.
 
EC1 said:
well..he asked for the darts.. he shouldn't have kept moving his fence and pinching my land;)
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:)

Then again, he wouldn't have had to build a fence around his garden if your pet rabbits hadn't been creeping across at night damaging his lettuces.
 
EC1 said:
well..he asked for the darts.. he shouldn't have kept moving his fence and pinching my land;)
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Try keeping up with the basic facts about the israeli presence im gaza

How many times does it need explaining that there would be no military operation in gaza if there were no missiles fired or tunnelled invasions by hamas? What is so difficult to understand about that?
 
icebreaker said:
Yes.
I believe that Israel has been admirably restrained to date.

Can we look at the meaning/definition of the word "proportionate" ?
Over the past decade, Hamas has fired 13,000 rockets at Israel, so a "proportionate" response by Israel would be to fire 13,000 rockets back. But they haven't, or have they?
Their reaction has been disproportionally small, I would contend.

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I would agree with that. Two points that are conveniently forgotten

Palestinians voted for a party that preaches the extermination of the jews. A party that was committed to wage war and a party that executed fatah opposition. No further elections planned of course, which is intetestingly never commented on by their apologists

it is surely clear to anyone with any shred of intelligence and free of the familiar prejudice that the action is not just about the here and now but to prevent escalation. I an sure that many on the livingatone left , far facist right and islamist world would love to see tel aviv hit with chemical weapons but it aint going to happen
 
Pp

icebreaker said:
Yes.
I believe that Israel has been admirably restrained to date.

Can we look at the meaning/definition of the word "proportionate" ?
Over the past decade, Hamas has fired 13,000 rockets at Israel, so a "proportionate" response by Israel would be to fire 13,000 rockets back. But they haven't, or have they?
Their reaction has been disproportionally small, I would contend.

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Ice-in all fairness after taking the trouble to look up proportionality in the dictionary you should take a minute to reflect on its meaning.As far as I can determine 6 Israelis have been killed in rocket attacks since the start of July-
over 1100 Palestinians have been killed in retaliation/reprisals.If you think that is proportionate you should take a long,hard look at yourself.
 
I don't know but a Italian journalist who has now left gaza "for his own safety" has certainy pinpointed last weeks un hit as Hamas. Not that this will be reported on the bbc

Who has most to gain from such an attack? Usually the starting point

I have no idea but nor does anyone else
 
So you are believing the unbelievable based on one journalist rather than the universal reporting that these bombs were Israeli?
 
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