Sheikh
At the Start
I don't think it's possible to block people from accessing a betting medium one way or another. It can only happen if all jurisdictions buy in to it. I can see some principalities holding out.
Not looking good across the water
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I don't think it's possible to block people from accessing a betting medium one way or another. It can only happen if all jurisdictions buy in to it. I can see some principalities holding out.
So how do the American states do it. If you stop people betting from Ireland like the American states do, that at least stops some of the cash getting out. Doesn't help those outside the country betting on Irish racing without paying a levy.
G
Gearoid
Guest
Cantoris - Are you an idiot? You think its acceptable for a potential Irish goverment to cost the country thousands of jobs because that is what an increase in the levy will create. Labour are so out of touch with their position.. The american ban on online gambling being lifted in Obamas term is 1-66 with me, it does not work. The labour party have got this all wrong.
If funding is left the way it is - it will lead to prizemoney being reduced further, leading to a drop in owners, trainers, bloodstock sales etc. Jobs in bookmakers are not the only jobs in racing.
The way things are going anyway so many of those bookmaker jobs will be shipped off a abroad.
Without trading insults....are you blind....or do you just choose to have all the benefits to the bookies who earn quite a nice profit margin from a sport they contribute very little to. Betfair provide nothing to an industry they make many millions out of. So happy to be called an idiot if a 0.5% increase in the exisiting levy for off-course shops means the survival of the industry that maintains most of the jobs in those off course shops. There once was a time when you had to pay 10% in a bookies office! So going from 1% to 1.5% is not difficult.
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Gearoid
Guest
Cantoris - you might have owned Brave Inca but that counts for nothing in what Im talking about. Any increase in the levy will cost jobs.
What has Brave Inca got to do with this?
An increase in the levy may cost jobs. No increase will definitely cost jobs. So why don't you suggest a solution that ensures all the jobs in bookmaking and racing are secured rather than throwing insults?
Turtle's fan
At the Start
You don't have to look far to find evidence that off-shore bookies are making a killing but contributing very little back to the sport:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/jan/07/gerry-sutcliffe-levy-offshore-bookmakers
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/in...ngland-pursues-offshore-money-for-racing.aspx
Eventually, if the current trend continues, there will be no 'big' bookies left on any shore. They will be creaming it off the top and giving nothing back at the bottom. If this is not tackled there will be no levy at all therefore no revunue being generated. If you think times are becoming tough now? Think on.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/jan/07/gerry-sutcliffe-levy-offshore-bookmakers
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/in...ngland-pursues-offshore-money-for-racing.aspx
Eventually, if the current trend continues, there will be no 'big' bookies left on any shore. They will be creaming it off the top and giving nothing back at the bottom. If this is not tackled there will be no levy at all therefore no revunue being generated. If you think times are becoming tough now? Think on.
Harbinger
At the Start
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The US made the transfer of funds from a financial institution to an online gambling site illegal at a federal level.
With due respect Gearoid, the only jobs you appear to be concerned with are those in the bookmaking division. A division that is already shipping jobs abroad despite making more money than in past years.
The tax rate on betting is not feasible, nor is the overall bookmaker/exchange contribution. Right now Betfair are paying nothing towards Irish racing....NOTHING.
G
Gearoid
Guest
We have taken massive hits in our wages as it is. The proposal by Labour was made by someone who has no clue whatsoever. If you boys think that Irish racing is substainable without bookmakers than your wrong.
trackside528
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Did not know that, Gareth. What about the likes of TVG? Still seems to be up and running as a gambling site.
My understanding was that it was down to the discretion of individual states to decide their position, but that was a couple of years ago.
I absolutely do not think it is substainable without bookmakers....the exact opposite is my very point.
I would not agree with everything the Labour proposal has to say. I am somewhat relieved that they have actually bothered to do up a proposal on the sport at all to be honest given their general indifference to the sport.
Sheikh
At the Start
That is the only way to do it. All jurisdictions will have to buy into it. There is no technical way of stopping people from accessing a bookmaker who is in a jurisdiction that is not playing ball.
I blame Cantoris for owning Brave Inca.
Harbinger
At the Start
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Well there is, but it basically requires putting law enforcement in the hands of private ISPs, and that every ISP toes the line. What happens if the ISPs tell them to sod off?
Sheikh
At the Start
What about the phone ?
Sheikh
At the Start
Off out for a few scoops, a demain.
G
Gearoid
Guest
I guarantee the labour proposal is unworkable.
I guarantee the future of racing is unworkable if the betting exchanges and the on-line arms of the big bookmakers make no contribution to running it.
If you think the Labour proposal is unworkable what do you propose instead?
If you think the Labour proposal is unworkable what do you propose instead?
By Racing Post staff 6:18PM 5 FEB 2010 TURF Club officials on Friday voted by an overwhelming majority for industrial action in their dispute over threatened salary and expenses cuts, and changes to contractual and working conditions.
The vote was taken following a three-hour meeting in a County Kildare hotel, after which a spokesperson for the officials said: "The vote for industrial action was carried overwhelmingly, by an 87.5 per cent majority, and our trade union, Mandate, will now officially give notice to management of our industrial action intention."
The raceday officials involved include; starters, judges, handicappers and stewards' secretaries. A strike would force the Turf Club to use either part-time workers or cancel race meetings.
Denis Egan, Turf Club chief executive, said: "We are very surprised officials have voted for industrial action and are still prepared to sit down with them in anattempt to try to come to some solution. It's a situation that simply has to be resolved."
In his weekly diary on HRI's goracing.ie website, Ireland's champion jumps trainer Willie Mullins said: "It was sad to see the Turf Club and its employees in the Labour Court this week. I have to say the team of people on the ground involved in the day-to-day running of Irish racing, the starters and clerks of the courses and so on, is the best team we've ever had."
Mullins also referred to the controversial start at Bellewstown last year, when the lack of experienced manpower for a Saturday evening meeting backfired.
He said: "There was an incident at Bellewstown when there was no established starter available because of a roster issue and a race went off without the favourite, so a lot of other things would want to be cut before our ‘A-Team', so to speak. They're extremely efficient, and give me great confidence inthe integrity of Irish racing."
The vote was taken following a three-hour meeting in a County Kildare hotel, after which a spokesperson for the officials said: "The vote for industrial action was carried overwhelmingly, by an 87.5 per cent majority, and our trade union, Mandate, will now officially give notice to management of our industrial action intention."
The raceday officials involved include; starters, judges, handicappers and stewards' secretaries. A strike would force the Turf Club to use either part-time workers or cancel race meetings.
Denis Egan, Turf Club chief executive, said: "We are very surprised officials have voted for industrial action and are still prepared to sit down with them in anattempt to try to come to some solution. It's a situation that simply has to be resolved."
In his weekly diary on HRI's goracing.ie website, Ireland's champion jumps trainer Willie Mullins said: "It was sad to see the Turf Club and its employees in the Labour Court this week. I have to say the team of people on the ground involved in the day-to-day running of Irish racing, the starters and clerks of the courses and so on, is the best team we've ever had."
Mullins also referred to the controversial start at Bellewstown last year, when the lack of experienced manpower for a Saturday evening meeting backfired.
He said: "There was an incident at Bellewstown when there was no established starter available because of a roster issue and a race went off without the favourite, so a lot of other things would want to be cut before our ‘A-Team', so to speak. They're extremely efficient, and give me great confidence inthe integrity of Irish racing."
Interestingly, that's already something being mooted here, Gal. Heard the other day that the 'lower class' race meetings are thought to be top-heavy with unnecessary officialdom, and that more casual staff will be dragooned in to sub for them. The cost to racecourses of BHA-appointed staff has to be a good five times or more that of casual raceday staff, who can be 'certificated' in two minutes flat by a BHA security official, for weighing-room duties. Thus, if a raceday casual costs £50 a meeting, compare that to a BHA appointee who'll cost a minimum of £250, plus a lunch. No contest. Stewards' secretaries are really fairly unnecessary - the stewards' assistant (whose only duty is to take the photo finish to the Press box and pin one up outside the weighing room) costs the same as the chap who asks to see your badge, opens and closes gates, punches tickets, etc., so why not do what many courses are now doing, but job-combining? For example, the Dope Catcher (who is told by the vet which horse to select and escort to the dope testing box) at Lingfield now combines this job with Parade Ring Marshall as the vets have decided to reduce the number of tests from 6, 7, or 8 per meeting to just 3. Or, if they're likely to test most races, he's put on carpark duty for a couple of hours first!
All courses are trying to cut back as much staff, double-up duties or cut them out as much as they can. That this is now extending to the very well paid 'official' staff isn't too surprising. All a judge has to do nowadays is to separate the pixels on the photo finish, end of. He doesn't play any other part in, say, stewards' inquiries or other proceedings. You or I could do that, particularly when he's assisted by the high-tech equipment of a large magnifying glass!
Raceday staff are already the starter's assistant, so it's hardly a quantum leap to be a starter - for NH, it's a doddle, you don't even have to get them into numbered ranks, as you do for the Flat. It's a job that is well within the remit of anyone who can count, notice if No.6 has got his cheekpieces on or not, and has the lower body strength to climb up a few steps.
Years ago, when I started working at courses, I thought there was a huge mystique to most of the jobs I saw. Now that I 'do' bookies money, the Weatherbys PASS entry system for O/Ts, sales via an automated system, and understand a lot more how the hallowed hall of the weighing-room works, believe me, there's no mystique at all! Casual staff could do any of the 'official' jobs, provided they had enough training to be stewards, and could manage a 3-course lunch with complimentary wine - surely the only positions on a raceday where an employee is allowed to consume alcohol?
All courses are trying to cut back as much staff, double-up duties or cut them out as much as they can. That this is now extending to the very well paid 'official' staff isn't too surprising. All a judge has to do nowadays is to separate the pixels on the photo finish, end of. He doesn't play any other part in, say, stewards' inquiries or other proceedings. You or I could do that, particularly when he's assisted by the high-tech equipment of a large magnifying glass!
Raceday staff are already the starter's assistant, so it's hardly a quantum leap to be a starter - for NH, it's a doddle, you don't even have to get them into numbered ranks, as you do for the Flat. It's a job that is well within the remit of anyone who can count, notice if No.6 has got his cheekpieces on or not, and has the lower body strength to climb up a few steps.
Years ago, when I started working at courses, I thought there was a huge mystique to most of the jobs I saw. Now that I 'do' bookies money, the Weatherbys PASS entry system for O/Ts, sales via an automated system, and understand a lot more how the hallowed hall of the weighing-room works, believe me, there's no mystique at all! Casual staff could do any of the 'official' jobs, provided they had enough training to be stewards, and could manage a 3-course lunch with complimentary wine - surely the only positions on a raceday where an employee is allowed to consume alcohol?
trackside528
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What's the latest on the Turf Club dispute? Read somewhere they are trying to recruit former officials back to fill the void. Would be a real shame to lose the Leopardstown card.
Officials not likely to have any support I wouldn't think but some of things that have been said about them have been egregiously (and deliberately) wrong. Really all stems back from the integrity cut which I still can't really fathom/
Officials not likely to have any support I wouldn't think but some of things that have been said about them have been egregiously (and deliberately) wrong. Really all stems back from the integrity cut which I still can't really fathom/
