Novice chasers 2013/14

reet hard said:
The vast majority of chasers ultimately stay 2m 4f, if only because they're not quick enough to win over shorter. That's a world apart from having the speed - as a novice - to win an Arkle.
Why, would you suggest, do Supreme winners have such a poor record in the race?
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We're not talking 'vast majority' - we're talking 'elite'.

As for Supreme winners - No idea. Maybe because most run at least one more season over hurdles, and are exposed to improvers more by the time they go over fences?

No matter. Please identify all these whippets who have won an Arkle.
 
I have long term thought that Grandoet was a bit of a hound.

Very clear that an Arkle horse must gallop at a strong pace, jump and stay beyond 2 miles.

I have yet to get my head around Trifolium
 
Aye, OK Grassy.
Carry on convincing yourself it's mere happenstance that Champion Bumper winners rarely win Supremes, and Supreme winners rarely win Arkles. I'm done.
 
Arkle winners since 2002

2002 Moscow Flyer
2003 Azertyuiop
2004 Well Chief
2005 Contraband
2006 Voy Por Ustedes
2007 My Way de Solzen
2008 Tidal Bay
2009 Forpadydeplasterer
2010 Sizing Europe
2011 Captain Chris
2012 Sprinter Sacre
2013 Simonsig

RSA winners since 2002

2002 Hussard Collonges
2003 One Knight
2004 Rule Supreme
2005 Trabolgan
2006 Star de Mohaison
2007 Denman
2008 Albertas Run
2009 Cooldine
2010 Weapon's Amnesty
2011 Bostons Angel
2012 Bobs Worth
2013 Lord Windermere


Safe to say that the Arkle has produced a better quality of horse over the last decade or so?
 
What are you getting your drawers in a twist about, reet?

I didn't even mention the Bumper or the Supreme - you did.

I only ever stated that - contrary to trefflich's theory - the Arkle is not traditionally won by horse with "10f flat speed", and as yet, no-one has been able to ID a winner of the race with these credentials, mainly because they don't exist.

Just because the race is less of a test than the Supreme, doesn't mean it avail itself to being won by a horse with a Flat pedigree or background over middle-distances. It needs an athletic type with speed and stamina.
 
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You couldn't kick Trifolium out of the 3 here. No matter the ground or pace. If he stands up, then he's in the 3.
 
Don't forget that since track changes in 2011 (my old hobby horse!) the rhythm of 2 mile races has changed at Cheltenham old Track.
Finians Rainbow's defeat in 2011 is the prime example of that.
The advent of the 2m 4f Novice Chase has affected the horses in RSA chase more than the Arkle Chase imo.
Jockeys also use Supreme to test the going so Arkle can be run quicker than Supreme; Sizing Europe's win run at lethal pace (they walked home) compared to Menorah's race 35 min earlier.
 
trefflich said:
Simonsig has 10f flat speed imo
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It might be your opinion, Treff, but there is absoluty no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

Simonsig started in 3m Points, and the ground has been Soft and Heavy for his only two outings over the minimum trip.
 
So just so we are clear... there is no fact around Arkle runners being faster than Supreme runners...its just a feeling. I can handle that. But i know for a fact that top 2m hurdlers are faster than 2m chasers on the gallop.
 
Looking through some twitter updates from the Willie Mullins press morning.

Champagne Fever - Arkle
Felix Yonger & Djakadam - JLT
Ballycasey - RSA

I haven't noticed any mention of Mozoltov.
 
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Mozoltov goes in the Woodlands Park (edit) on Sunday, and the outcome probably determines whether he goes to the JLT or not (I've given up on him going to the Arkle).
 
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Grasshopper said:
That's true.......until you look at his form.
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I don't see it myself but I could obviously be wrong, and the better ground which he had for beating Malowney could be a reasoning you have. Malowney who is decent yard stick, but saw him as more of an Grand Annual type.
Beating the Don over 2m by a length is not really that strong a form. And he was put in his place last time out. I think there will be at least 3 in each race that would be too strong. But we shall see. :cool:
 
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