Novice Chasers 2016/2017

Chasers & Hurdlers rate Douvan higher than both SS and UDS last season, and I agree that it seems just a wee bit fanciful, however, he probably wouldn't be too far off either of them. UDS is 'only' on 174, which is about as low as you would probably want to rate a horse who won all three spring 2m novice championship races without ever coming off the bridle.

In terms of their future prospects, it's only natural that Douvan is the one that people will look to, because he is the only one of the three that is still progressive, and he is already at (or very close to) the level of SS and UDS. Taking that view doesn't equate to disrespect for either Sprinter Sacre or UDS though, imo.
 
SS though was a 190 TF in pomp wasn't he Grass?

i think with SS..we have to talk about his career as pre Arkle and post Arkle if i can put it that way..in early days..he was just a force of nature..last year he was amazing..but not with the immense figures he churned out early on

he is the only horse i have seen that was like Arkle..ie winning by big distances..laughing at G1 horses

Douvan is very exciting..i really don't know why anyone would not want himto be as good as he promises..its sort of..well everyone thinks this is great..so i'll go against it..re Aughex

he can't lose really making that call..if Douvan is something special..Aughex won't post for a few months..if it doesn't work out re Douvan..he will rub it in every race

if i am wrong Aughex..i apologise..but when people take against..what looks a special horse..i wonder why..i mean..i don't know Douvan..he might be a really nice horse..sort you can have a drink with in the local:).why do you not rate him Aughex?

has he pretended to be a jehovahs witness and kept knocking at your door..did he knock you pint over one night in a drunken haze..what could it be i wonder?
 
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Will winning those three championship novice races take its toll on Douvan this season? It could be argued that the Sprinter never fully recovered from his exertions winning his championship races in open company in 2013.
 
In terms of Timeform figures, Douvan's best performance was at Aintree where he was rated 173+, next best was 167+ at P'town and 164+ in the Arkle. That's it. The 180p is same crap that they came up with UDS last season. If you don't know they also had him at 180 and he failed to live up to that. As for SS, he's rated 174+ for the CC and 179+ for Sandown. UDS has let down last season(170+ in the CC) but he needs cut in the ground to show his best and if he'll get that there's every chance to believe he can turn around the form with SS who's not getting younger.
 
UDS is a very good animal if it weren't for the fences.....isn't a natural jumper..Thistlecrack is a better jumper just on his first effort...engine is great..but they should have stuck to hurdles,,would love to have seen him with just another season hurdling

i think people are forgetting what SS achieved pre Arkle here..it was in another stratosphere to anything in the 2m division since year dot..a 174 hoss he would have laughed at a few years ago..he will have to be actually asked to beat such a horse nowadays..but will probablly still take it..that tells you how good he was ..and still is..even his B game is up to the level that beats most horses

there are 3 categories for me..an average winner of a race....an above average winner of a race..a monster of a horse that defies belief

two horses in the last 40 years have hit that last category for me..Frankel and Sprinter Sacre
 
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UDS may race primarily in France

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Un De Sceaux tipped to stay in France

Posted on <time class="entry-date updated" datetime="2016-10-27T13:58:23+00:00">October 27, 2016</time> by admin in News | 0 Comments
sprinter-Sacre-JulieJPG-800x533.jpg


Connections have hinted that Un De Sceaux may race primarily in France this season to avoid a showdown with Sprinter Sacre.
The duo faced each other at Cheltenham and Sandown last season, with Nicky Henderson’s charge taking the Queen Mother Champion Chase and bet365 Celebration Chase at the respective venues.
Un De Sceaux was second on both occasions and returned to winning ways at Auteuil in May before failing to shine in a Grade One hurdle at the same venue a month later.
The Willie Mullins-trained eight-year-old has not been seen since and part-owner Colm O’Connell admits that, although options are open, it is likely that races across the Channel will be on the agenda this season.
“It’s been very dry, which isn’t good news for us,” he said. “That said, he’s never out too early so it won’t affect us and it’s got to start raining soon.
“He’s usually out the third week in November and he’ll start off somewhere between two and two and a half miles.
“There are races in France we’ll be looking at. He really seems to suit Auteuil and they are so valuable.
“Obviously there’s the Tingle Creek but I’d prefer to avoid Sprinter Sacre if we could given what happened at Cheltenham and Sandown.”
 
they should actually train him for teh Champion Hurdle..a race they should have aimed at a while ago..its probably too late now re hurdles but the fact they ducking proper oppo over big twigs tells you..Suny and me were right a few years ago
 
Sacre was rated c192p in his pomp, EC1 - though he is clearly a degree below that now.

I suspect you mean pre-/post-injury (rather than Arkle), when talking about his career? If so, I agree - it's like two different animals; one very, very good, and the other extraordinarily good.
 
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EC1 said:
UDS is a very good animal if it weren't for the fences.....isn't a natural jumper..Thistlecrack is a better jumper just on his first effort...engine is great..but they should have stuck to hurdles,,would love to have seen him with just another season hurdling

i think people are forgetting what SS achieved pre Arkle here..it was in another stratosphere to anything in the 2m division since year dot..a 174 hoss he would have laughed at a few years ago..he will have to be actually asked to beat such a horse nowadays..but will probablly still take it..that tells you how good he was ..and still is..even his B game is up to the level that beats most horses

there are 3 categories for me..an average winner of a race....an above average winner of a race..a monster of a horse that defies belief

two horses in the last 40 years have hit that last category for me..Frankel and Sprinter Sacre
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Couldn't agree more.
 
Len Madeiros said:
Will winning those three championship novice races take its toll on Douvan this season? It could be argued that the Sprinter never fully recovered from his exertions winning his championship races in open company in 2013.
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Don't reckon the theory holds much water myself, Len.

Douvan would barely know he has been in a novice chase so far - much like Sprinter before him. And I don't think Sacre's problems can in any way be attributed to his races in open company; mainly for the same reasons, because he was barely out of a canter in any of them. It was just one of those things, I reckon.
 
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Maybe you're right, Len, though in his 5 runs in the 2013/2014 season, Sprinter Sacre's race comments included two "very impressives", two "impressives" and a single "comfortably".

They don't strike me as statements which easily attach themselves to a horse that may have been pushing himself beyond the bounds of his capabilities, though it's not impossible, I suppose.
 
I think doing Cheltenham/Aintree/Punchestown all in a few weeks, the latter on minging ground broke his heart. You only have to look at the record books to see who's done all 3 in open company. Still the best I've ever seen though.
 
EC1 said:
UDS is a very good animal if it weren't for the fences.....isn't a natural jumper..Thistlecrack is a better jumper just on his first effort...engine is great..but they should have stuck to hurdles,,would love to have seen him with just another season hurdling

i think people are forgetting what SS achieved pre Arkle here..it was in another stratosphere to anything in the 2m division since year dot..a 174 hoss he would have laughed at a few years ago..he will have to be actually asked to beat such a horse nowadays..but will probablly still take it..that tells you how good he was ..and still is..even his B game is up to the level that beats most horses

there are 3 categories for me..an average winner of a race....an above average winner of a race..a monster of a horse that defies belief

two horses in the last 40 years have hit that last category for me..Frankel and Sprinter Sacre
Click to expand...

I'm in full agreement EC. Sprinter is universally loved by national hunt fans but I do fear his legacy has been tainted somewhat by the runs when he was wrong.

I do think Douvan will join that beyond belief bracket this season.
 
EC1 said:
there are 3 categories for me..an average winner of a race....an above average winner of a race..a monster of a horse that defies belief

two horses in the last 40 years have hit that last category for me..Frankel and Sprinter Sacre
Click to expand...

i would add one more category
the horses that do it more than once,

frankel was so special for posting those 138+ nces many times! some horses do it once but are un able to replicate again.
 
in a parallel world somewhere all the best stallions carry on racing at 4 ..and the poor ones go to stud..in that parallel world they have some hell of a good all age G1's..and some fascinating novice hurdles..until all those poor stallions that have gone to stud start kicking out Banded racing offspring:)
 
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