Be news to me.
Novice & Juvenile Hurdlers 2019/20
- Thread starter Diamond Geezer
- Start date
Be news to me.
Diamond Geezer
Gone But Not Forgotten
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There have been four 4yo winners, albeit the last time it happened was in 1942.
Where did you see that? That's worth tweeting!
Diamond Geezer
Gone But Not Forgotten
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granger
Senior Jockey
Possibly but not because of Tony Calvin
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
I think Carefully Selected was the lay of the Festival but he aint if CC and Copperhead stupidly go for the RSA
Solo has tip top oppo, that's the neg about him and his price.
Triumph is the race of the Festival outside of the Queen Mother (maybe GC)
Solo has tip top oppo, that's the neg about him and his price.
Triumph is the race of the Festival outside of the Queen Mother (maybe GC)
granger
Senior Jockey
Sign of a dearth of top class racehorses
Double Handful
At the Start
I'd disagree with both, for the same reason. There's a plethora of really exciting novice hurdlers at this year's festival..
Envoi Allen, Abacadabras, Shiskin, Asterion Forlonge, Fiddler, sporting John, chantry house, the bigs Breakaway & Getaway... The list goes on.
The supreme is a hugely exciting and competitive race imo.
Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
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I've started watching last year's festival again.
Somewhere along the line I managed to delete my recordings but I remembered the JC site has them archived.
So far I've only watched the first two races on the Tuesday but they were both smashing races to watch. I'd half-forgotten how impressive both KD and DDG had been, and Thomas Darby and itchy Feet both ran brilliant races in chasing KD home, especially since both finished lame.
It served as a sharp reminder how fast they go in these races and how good you need to be to win them.
Looking forward to finding a quiet hour or two to catch up on some more.
Somewhere along the line I managed to delete my recordings but I remembered the JC site has them archived.
So far I've only watched the first two races on the Tuesday but they were both smashing races to watch. I'd half-forgotten how impressive both KD and DDG had been, and Thomas Darby and itchy Feet both ran brilliant races in chasing KD home, especially since both finished lame.
It served as a sharp reminder how fast they go in these races and how good you need to be to win them.
Looking forward to finding a quiet hour or two to catch up on some more.
Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
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Just as I posted the above I decided to look back at my review of last year's Tuesday, which I've copied and pasted below.
It's a mini-essay so I'd rather people ignored it rather than read it through and tell me it bored them...
Review
Tuesday Supreme/Champion
The first day of the festival was not short of shocks. Early favourite for the Arkle, Glen Forsa, had been usurped at the head of the betting by the gambled-on Hardline for the Gigginstown/Elliot/Russell axis only for the former to miss the break before atypically getting a fence all wrong and rid of his jockey – a wee bit of zeugma already – and the latter never getting competitive.
Then nothing, most notably the favourite Apple’s Jade, bar the winner ran its race in the Champion Hurdle before odds-on Benie Des Dieux proved anything but a blessing for her connections and backers when doing a Tom Daly into the turf at the last with the race at her mercy.
Finally we had the unedifying spectacle of good young animals and amateur jockeys failing, bar two, to cope with the demands of a marathon chase in deep ground.
And yet, perhaps fittingly, I will remember the day for the performance of A Plus Tard in the Close Brothers more than anything else. I didn’t have a sou on him but he arguably put up the best performance of any of the novice chasers all week. This is one we’ll be seeing plenty of later, I hope.
As for the individual races, I think the Supreme winner is top class, probably in the same league as Faugheen and Douvan from the same yard. I read Simon Rowlands’s sectional analysis and while he is presenting his times based on electronic timings which will therefore be more accurate than my own (using video timings that don’t have decimal points so can only be approximate) we are arriving at very similar conclusions.
The leader in the Champion hurdle was a lot faster from flight 1 to flight 3 despite Brandon Castle going clear early in the novices’ race. He had been overtaken by flight three before folding tamely. Thereafter, Klassical Dream was probably some way closer to the lead than Espoir D’Allen but from flight 3 to the last flight the Supreme was faster to every flight bar from 5 to 6 which worked out the same.
So although Brandon Castle was 15 lengths behind Melon and Apples Jade at flight 3 the horse(s) that took over the pace then got to the last approximately 30 lengths faster than Espoir D’Allen. They went up the hill at the same speed according to my timings; Klassical Dream was about three lengths faster according to SR.
My conclusion is that the Champion Hurdle fell completely apart. Buveur D’Air tipped up and brought down Sharjah, Apple’s Jade was never going from at least the mistake at the second flight, Walsh said Laurina was never travelling, Verdana Blue couldn’t go in the ground, Brain Power was never really any better than last place before pulling up coming down the hill and Global Citizen ran no race either. Mark Walsh himself admitted after the race he was riding Espoir D’Allen for a place and Evan Williams said he felt he had no real hope of getting placed in the race with 80/1 shot Silver Streak.
It's a mini-essay so I'd rather people ignored it rather than read it through and tell me it bored them...
Review
Tuesday Supreme/Champion
The first day of the festival was not short of shocks. Early favourite for the Arkle, Glen Forsa, had been usurped at the head of the betting by the gambled-on Hardline for the Gigginstown/Elliot/Russell axis only for the former to miss the break before atypically getting a fence all wrong and rid of his jockey – a wee bit of zeugma already – and the latter never getting competitive.
Then nothing, most notably the favourite Apple’s Jade, bar the winner ran its race in the Champion Hurdle before odds-on Benie Des Dieux proved anything but a blessing for her connections and backers when doing a Tom Daly into the turf at the last with the race at her mercy.
Finally we had the unedifying spectacle of good young animals and amateur jockeys failing, bar two, to cope with the demands of a marathon chase in deep ground.
And yet, perhaps fittingly, I will remember the day for the performance of A Plus Tard in the Close Brothers more than anything else. I didn’t have a sou on him but he arguably put up the best performance of any of the novice chasers all week. This is one we’ll be seeing plenty of later, I hope.
As for the individual races, I think the Supreme winner is top class, probably in the same league as Faugheen and Douvan from the same yard. I read Simon Rowlands’s sectional analysis and while he is presenting his times based on electronic timings which will therefore be more accurate than my own (using video timings that don’t have decimal points so can only be approximate) we are arriving at very similar conclusions.
The leader in the Champion hurdle was a lot faster from flight 1 to flight 3 despite Brandon Castle going clear early in the novices’ race. He had been overtaken by flight three before folding tamely. Thereafter, Klassical Dream was probably some way closer to the lead than Espoir D’Allen but from flight 3 to the last flight the Supreme was faster to every flight bar from 5 to 6 which worked out the same.
So although Brandon Castle was 15 lengths behind Melon and Apples Jade at flight 3 the horse(s) that took over the pace then got to the last approximately 30 lengths faster than Espoir D’Allen. They went up the hill at the same speed according to my timings; Klassical Dream was about three lengths faster according to SR.
My conclusion is that the Champion Hurdle fell completely apart. Buveur D’Air tipped up and brought down Sharjah, Apple’s Jade was never going from at least the mistake at the second flight, Walsh said Laurina was never travelling, Verdana Blue couldn’t go in the ground, Brain Power was never really any better than last place before pulling up coming down the hill and Global Citizen ran no race either. Mark Walsh himself admitted after the race he was riding Espoir D’Allen for a place and Evan Williams said he felt he had no real hope of getting placed in the race with 80/1 shot Silver Streak.
granger
Senior Jockey
The supreme is always hotly anticipated even in a poor year
Hopefully this lot are above average but I wouldn't be certain
I have a bias to horses as long term chasers also as opposed to their hurdling careers
Diamond Geezer
Gone But Not Forgotten
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Yellow Tiger supplemented for the Triumph
Diamond Geezer
Gone But Not Forgotten
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- 13,884
BHA marks for Irish novices on Tuesday at Cheltenham
Abacadabras 153
Asterion Forlonge 155
Envoi Allen 156
Cash Back 156
Fakir d’Oudairies 154
Notebook 158
Battleoverdoyen 153
Carefully Selected 152
Abacadabras 153
Asterion Forlonge 155
Envoi Allen 156
Cash Back 156
Fakir d’Oudairies 154
Notebook 158
Battleoverdoyen 153
Carefully Selected 152
Last edited:
DannyB
At the Start
Horrible feeling Envoi now heading supreme after listening to Elliott at preview night.
Maxbet
Journeyman
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Betting would suggest it too...(exchange)
2/1 on the exchange for the Ballymore
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
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- 16,050
Might get done for toe. Looks all over a stayer to me.
Frankel
Senior Jockey
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Your idea of the winner?
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
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- 16,050
I still like Shishkin.
I originally thought he looked more of a stayer himself, but almost everyone I've read or listened to since Newbury (principally trainer/jockey combo), reckons he has a turn-of-foot, and I'm now prepared to take that on trust. He has finished his last two races full of running, looks to have a stack of improvement left in him, and the ground won't worry him either.. He is very hard to get away from for me, and I'm almost at the point of hoping Envoi does get switched, and Shishkin drifts on the back of it.
I originally thought he looked more of a stayer himself, but almost everyone I've read or listened to since Newbury (principally trainer/jockey combo), reckons he has a turn-of-foot, and I'm now prepared to take that on trust. He has finished his last two races full of running, looks to have a stack of improvement left in him, and the ground won't worry him either.. He is very hard to get away from for me, and I'm almost at the point of hoping Envoi does get switched, and Shishkin drifts on the back of it.
granger
Senior Jockey
Double Handful
At the Start
I watched it on YouTube. It was pure sensationalism and propaganda!! The night was a Betfair benefit and they milked the life out of it. The Elliott "bombshell" designed purely to whip up activity on the Betfair exchange on ALL novice hurdle markets, which it duly did.
The whole night was 100% targeted at encouraging mug punters to use the exchange more.
It didn't rain a drop in Cheltenham yesterday and weather dry again for the next 48 hours. If/when Elliot walks the course sat/sun, like he says he will, it'll be closer to soft/good to soft in places, than it will be heavy.
I'm calling bulls**t and firmly believe Envoi Allen still goes Ballymore!
The whole night was 100% targeted at encouraging mug punters to use the exchange more.
It didn't rain a drop in Cheltenham yesterday and weather dry again for the next 48 hours. If/when Elliot walks the course sat/sun, like he says he will, it'll be closer to soft/good to soft in places, than it will be heavy.
I'm calling bulls**t and firmly believe Envoi Allen still goes Ballymore!