Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe 2011

Hamm said:
:lol::lol::lol:

This is the funniest post I've read on here - he should be 250/1, not 25. He has next to zero chance, and has been shown up twice already as nowhere near good enough.
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Agree entirely, look at some of the other horses at 25s. I'd have Seville or Victoire Pisa in a match bet with you Steve (assuming they run)!
 
Lets hope money comes for him. He has taken a nice chunk out of the market the last 2 years without ever having a realistic chance. I think at the moment, you could in theory see most of the top 5/6 in the market as a potential winner. To create any value, you would need 1/2 you could rule out immediately at 12s or less.
 
Hamm said:
:lol::lol::lol:

This is the funniest post I've read on here - he should be 250/1, not 25. He has next to zero chance, and has been shown up twice already as nowhere near good enough.
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Are you offering 250/1?
 
What's just hyperbole??

Am I not allowed say what price I think a horse should be without offering that price?

When did this place become like a school playground...
 
Hamm said:
What's just hyperbole??
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That you think Fame And Glory should be 250/1 to win the Arc.

Am I not allowed say what price I think a horse should be without offering that price?
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I'm just trying to establish if you were exaggerating for effect, or you really believe that.

When did this place become like a school playground...
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Hamm said:
:lol::lol::lol:

This is the funniest post I've read on here
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Honestly, I give up. You are intolerable to discuss anything with, being such a pedant.
 
Fame and Glory is a fine racehorse, who would go close in a weak Arc, I believe.

Let's not forget how he was hampered in the race last year, and how well he ran in defeat to Sea the Stars and when winning numerous Group 1 races at 10f to 12f.

This looks a decent enough Arc on the face of it. But I don't think he is too far off any of the contenders.

It is not hard to imagine him beating Nathaniel.
It is not hard to imagine him beating Sarafina.
It is not impossible to imagine him beating Workforce.
It is not impossible to imagine him beating Pour Moi.

But beating all of them? Not 12/1, not 250/1.
 
Where did Fame and Glory come in the weak Arc (outside the winner) that had Cavalryman, Conduit & Youmzain has the the top 3 horses behind Sea the Stars? Oh wait...
 
There may be others in the race with a seemingly equal or better chance, but none of those are 25/1. He got knocked sideway in this last year when making his move and I reckon he'll finish with the likes of Sarafina (which would be close to winning it).

Ballydoyle have a fair selection of talent for this and the fact that they are preparing him over some others should also tell you something. He is a horse with a lot of class and capable of running to a big rating. Horses like Youmzain did well in races like this and I'd say Fame is well up to emulating him, for example.

I'm happy enough with 25s on a horse that seems very likely to line up and is as good as ever. You can't say the same for many of the others. I'll be backing one or two others nearer the time when plans firm up.

I feel genuinely sorry for those who can't recognise true value when it bites them in the arse. ;)
 
Listen, I am no Fame and Glory apologist. And I don't fancy him for the Arc.

But I believe he could have been second in that 09 Arc, had he been ridden differently.

He raced keenly and was restrained to be held up off not the strongest pace.

He was ridden as if he would have the toe to do for G1 middle distance horses. In actual fact he should have been allowed to gallop and stride on a bit more. I can't watch the race again here in work, but I have memory of his run being held up once or twice, which wouldn't have suited him.
 
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Just to clarify (so all current and new members are aware) - no person on here is from now forward allowed say what price a horse should be unless he/she is willing to lay it - is that correct?
 
Bar the Bull said:
Listen, I am no Fame and Glory apologist. And I don't fancy him for the Arc.

But I believe he could have been second in that 09 Arc, had he been ridden differently.

He raced keenly and was restrained to be held up off not the strongest pace.

He was ridden as if he would have the toe to do for G1 middle distance horses. In actual fact he should have been allowed to gallop and stride on a bit more..
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Generally agree with that. I think he'd need a really strong gallop, and not be positioned too far off it. The Westerner ride, if you will. Even then I'd be surprised if there wasn't something simply better in the race. That's the difficulty of winning the Arc - coming second isn't that amazingly hard, its just there's always likely to be something a bit special in there.
 
SteveM said:
...don't be so angry about everything Hamm... I've backed the horse, I'm not forcing you to!
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What exactly am I angry with? It wasn't me who was losing it post Canford-Frankel..

I'm just pointing out how ridiculous it is for someone not to be able to post up what price they think a horse should be without being told you must be willing to lay it then! I don't, and I suspect many others don't, lay horses, hence are we now not allowed mention what price a horse should be...
 
Bar the Bull said:
Listen, I am no Fame and Glory apologist. And I don't fancy him for the Arc.

But I believe he could have been second in that 09 Arc, had he been ridden differently.

He raced keenly and was restrained to be held up off not the strongest pace.

He was ridden as if he would have the toe to do for G1 middle distance horses. In actual fact he should have been allowed to gallop and stride on a bit more. I can't watch the race again here in work, but I have memory of his run being held up once or twice, which wouldn't have suited him.
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As you say, you can't watch the race as you are at work. He was far from held up.
 
For one reason or another Fame has not run to his best in the last two Arcs (on RPRs he ran 10lb below his best on both occasions on 121 (best RPR 131)). Given he gets his conditions and the run of the race I think he'll go close.
 
Hamm said:
As you say, you can't watch the race as you are at work. He was far from held up.
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My memory of the race was that he was ridden for toe off a middling pace. I see from comments in running that he was 6th and then 8th during the first mile.

I believe my point still stands. Fame and Glory has stamina to burn. He is also a classy bugger, as testified by his multiple G1 wins over 10f to 12f, and his proximity to Sea the Stars in the Irish Champion and Epsom Derby.

But he is never going to be able to show that class when ridden like he was in Paris in October 2009.
 
Gareth Flynn said:
Generally agree with that. I think he'd need a really strong gallop, and not be positioned too far off it. The Westerner ride, if you will. Even then I'd be surprised if there wasn't something simply better in the race. That's the difficulty of winning the Arc - coming second isn't that amazingly hard, its just there's always likely to be something a bit special in there.
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I'd also agree with this. But if he reproduces his best there won't be many capable of better. As things stand there are those who might have an apparent edge on him, but in the race itself I'd expect himto be right there.
 
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