Road to the 2022 Cheltenham Gold Cup

granger said:
Both are much of a muchness.

Below top level but good
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I think it’s rather too early to make that judgement about Galvin, PJ.

Today’s race is another step-up in performance from him any way I look at it, and the extra two furlongs of the Gold Cup trip will suit him too.
 
Agree with Nick. Was really impressed today and of course he loves Cheltenham (although he's not run on the new course yet). He's in the second tier of the market with the likes of ABP, Chantry House and Champ. He's the only possible bet amongst that lot.
 
I;m surprised you are both optimistic on him

Yesterday was better and he was race fit yet still couldn't beat Frodon

Frodon as admirable as he is, is not a top class gold cup horse either

MI will have lbs of improvement to come, not sure how much more Galvin has
 
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The stamina requirements of the Gold Cup alone compared with yesterday's contest is enough for optimism as is the likelihood that his trainer won't have him at his peak until the spring.
 
Ruby was adamant that Minella was tubby yesterday -I thought it was a cracking seasonal reappearance for a horse that is hard to get fit.Ruby also said that Galvin looked terrible.
 
granger said:
What did people make of shan bleu?

Looked like it was going to be a 20l plus smash job

See them mentioning Newbury this morning
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Yes. The trainer suggested that the handicapper shouldn't count yesterday because the horse fell three out and not two out.

A 20L win would probably see a 14lbs rise in the ratings so if the handicapper does as Skelton suggests he could be that much well in. The rest of the form makes a lot of sense.

An extra nearly three furlongs at Newbury (or Cheltenham for that matter) might be another matter but it's certainly food for thought.
 
edgt said:
Hats off to Frodon once again.
Now in his fifth season at top/near top level.
Continues to be a revelation , long may he reign and phuk the naysayers
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Yes indeed, indeed. Joy to watch even when fluffs one, settles back into a rhythm and just carries on as if nothing had happened. Bryony just sorts her reins, and on they go.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Yes. The trainer suggested that the handicapper shouldn't count yesterday because the horse fell three out and not two out.

A 20L win would probably see a 14lbs rise in the ratings so if the handicapper does as Skelton suggests he could be that much well in. The rest of the form makes a lot of sense.

An extra nearly three furlongs at Newbury (or Cheltenham for that matter) might be another matter but it's certainly food for thought.
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Has only ever won on a flat course (Southwell,Kempton and Wetherby) beaten on undulating and courses with a hill (Sandown,Cheltenham and Warwick)
 
Desert Orchid said:
Yes. The trainer suggested that the handicapper shouldn't count yesterday because the horse fell three out and not two out.

A 20L win would probably see a 14lbs rise in the ratings so if the handicapper does as Skelton suggests he could be that much well in. The rest of the form makes a lot of sense.

An extra nearly three furlongs at Newbury (or Cheltenham for that matter) might be another matter but it's certainly food for thought.
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How would you rate him through yesterday?

Potential or some rating with a p
 
My suspicion is that the Charlie Hall was a terrible, terrible race, and the form may grossly flatter Shan Blue. That said, he is very likely a few lbs ahead of the handicapper.
 
Grasshopper said:
My suspicion is that the Charlie Hall was a terrible, terrible race, and the form may grossly flatter Shan Blue. That said, he is very likely a few lbs ahead of the handicapper.
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Yep. And wherever he goes next, he'll be overbet

I hate jock bashing but in Ireland no jock would go for home that early
 
Think his tactics were fair enough, as he was clearly on the best horse in the race. It’s just not a performance to get too excitable about, imo.
 
granger said:
Yep. And wherever he goes next, he'll be overbet

I hate jock bashing but in Ireland no jock would go for home that early
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Didn’t have much option - they were racing together well ahead of the pack and Cyrname died, nso what was Skelton to do?
 
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The horse has completely missed-out the third-last, PJ, qnd I thought suggestions on ITV Racing that the tank was emptying were utter bollocks myself.

Vary harsh to pin the blqme for the fall on the jockey, imo.
 
I thought Harry Skelton gave Shan Bleu an absolutely terrible ride at Cheltenham, and again yesterday. He got Shan Bleu into flat-out overdrive far too soon and tried to blow his opposition away rather than merely win.
 
He kicked from the home turn on Molly Olly’s Wishes early on the card, Art, and never saw another horse after that. I suspect he was simply trying to repeat the formula, and if Cyrname had returned near his best, he couldn’t afford to lay too far off him. Besides (personal preference, but) when a horse is travelling as well as Shan Blue was, I always prefer that jockey’s boot them on when stamina is a given, rather than pi*ss-about trying to win cute.

I think his Cheltenham tactics were fine too. His only real chance was to make it a real test in the Marsh, and the bigger error imo, was the trainer running him in the wrong race (presumably running scared of Monkfish).
 
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Arthur can you clear your inbox please, cheers.

Yes I backed Shan Blue for the RSA at 25s before the Feltham last season using the rough logic that if he won over 3 miles at Kempton on boxing day then he'd be an RSA horse.

However, Skelton quickly made it clear he didn't want to run him in the.RSA, but I'm not sure Shan Blue ran to his very best next time against Sporting John or really trained on after Kempton on Boxing Day anyhow.

So for the reasons above, especially how his form was hit and miss last season, I reckon its only about 50/50 that he will reproduce that effort at Wetherby in a few weeks at Newbury in the Ladbrokes Trophy.

I think he's a prime candidate to bounce myself, although I'd be happy for Shan Blue to prove me wrong.

It was a crashing fall, surely as a trainer it would take you two weeks to even want to see the horse jump a fence again let alone be able to tell how he's 'come out the race'.
 
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Grasshopper said:
The horse has completely missed-out the third-last, PJ, qnd I thought suggestions on ITV Racing that the tank was emptying were utter bollocks myself.

Vary harsh to pin the blqme for the fall on the jockey, imo.
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Like Art said, did the horse need to be cajoled to the extent he was.

The jock has previous and the jockeys energy transfers to horse.

I doubt the horse was tired but still think a jockey has one job with the best horse.. present him so he gets home


For the record, it's not jockey bashing to say that another approach would offer a better result for the horse. I had no skin in the Game but its not how you race ride here
 
Kicking on 4 out like he was riding a finish...horrendous judgement. Poor oul Cadzand wasn't helped either today and paid the price.
 
granger said:
Like Art said, did the horse need to be cajoled to the extent he was.

The jock has previous and the jockeys energy transfers to horse.

I doubt the horse was tired but still think a jockey has one job with the best horse.. present him so he gets home


For the record, it's not jockey bashing to say that another approach would offer a better result for the horse. I had no skin in the Game but its not how you race ride here
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OK, I get this entirely. Looking back, I recall saying much the same about Moore when he came off Goshen in the Triumph.

Whilst I think the circumstances are slightly different i.e. Skelton almost found himself in front by accident with a half-mile to go, and going vastly better than anything else, a more cautious approach in the straight would probably have been wiser.
 
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