Road to the 2022 Cheltenham Gold Cup

Think that's a fair enough view to take, tbh. Horse clearly comes alive at Cheltenham, and was really a nonsense price for Kempton.
 
I know it's 2 pans but I think he's a flash in them and wont be a front runner this time round.

Galvin already took care of A Plus Tard and appears like he'd be even more likely to win on the stiffer track and the longer trip. beats me why he's not favourite.

I would have expected them to go even shorter than 8/1 and I am not surprised the bookies have cut the upandcoming Protektorat to as low as 12/1 in places.

The face of the race is changing slowly but surely.....all it takes now is for Nicky to throw a spanner in the works and run Champ and the race will be in topsy turvy land
 
Maybe the fact Protektorat was beaten off 154 in a Cheltenham handicap on the New Course would explain why he hasn't been cut for the Gold Cup? The Aintree race hardly proves he stays anyway, as all he beat was a bunch of geriatrics, non-triers, non-stayers and out-of-form mutts.

I've more chance of running in the Gold Cup than fu*cking Champ! :lol:
 
Desert Orchid said:
I've taken 10/1 Minella Indo. He was a good winner last season beating the reigning dual champ fair and square. I reckon the price is a complete over-reaction to one bad run.
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By the 'one bad run' logic can we forgive Chantry House for his Boxing Day effort aswell?

Its 3 months to the race plenty of time for him to come right again.

I guess its unlikely but maybe 25's is a big price on him now too.
 
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Marb said:
By the 'one bad run' logic can we forgive Chantry House for his Boxing Day effort aswell?

Its 3 months to the race plenty of time for him to come right again.

I guess its unlikely but maybe 25's is a big price on him now too.
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Absolutely. I am almost always willing to forgive one bad run.

The difference with Chantie is that he still needed to improve a stone to figure. That's not to say he couldn't do it but that on top of the duff run adds another dimension to his position. Again, he could well overcome these issues but I'd want a helluva lot more than 25s about his doing so.
 
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Grasshopper said:
Maybe the fact Protektorat was beaten off 154 in a Cheltenham handicap on the New Course would explain why he hasn't been cut for the Gold Cup? The Aintree race hardly proves he stays anyway, as all he beat was a bunch of geriatrics, non-triers, non-stayers and out-of-form mutts.

I've more chance of running in the Gold Cup than fu*cking Champ! :lol:
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One minute you are telling me I should read your posts more carefully the next you are making yourself look like a hypocrite as you obviously never read mines or checked the betting...the Skelton horse has been cut all across the boards if you take the time to go and look....
 
Talking of Champ, what else has Henderson got to play with other than Chantry House who was horrible on Sunday. I would have thought JP wants a chance in the race and that looks like best coming from Champ unless they can re-invent Chantry House. Must be some real hard thinking going on there.
 
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Tanlic, I did in fact check Oddschecker, and Protektorat was unchanged at 16/1 with Coral, unchanged at 16/1 with Sky, and unchanged at 14/1 with Ladbrokes and Victor. He has been cut in other books, it’s true, but he’s only been brought into line with shorter prices which were already available.

No-one has gone out on a limb, or is necessarily taking a view of on his form. It’s a natural market adjustment caused by the front-end moving around, and is reflected in similar price-cuts to Tornado Flyer and Al Boum Photo……but you wouldn’t think to mention those, because they’re not included in the narrative you have constructed around the race.
 
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Grasshopper said:
Tanlic, I did in fact check Oddschecker, and Protektorat was unchanged at 16/1 with Coral, unchanged at 16/1 with Sky, and unchanged at 14/1 with Ladbrokes and Victor. He has been cut in other books, it’s true, but he’s only been brought into line with shorter prices which were already available.

No-one has gone out on a limb, or is necessarily taking a view of on his form. It’s a natural market adjustment caused by the front-end moving around, and is reflected in similar price-cuts to Tornado Flyer and Al Boum Photo……but you wouldn’t think to mention those, because they’re not included in the narrative you have constructed around the race.
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Unless you can hack into the computers of Hills Ladbrokes Corals eg you have no idea how much money has gone onto any horse in the last few days.

I have been monotoring the money traded on the horse and around 4000 pounds which is more than has been placed on Galvin over the same period.

He is now clear 4th favourite on the machine.

The horse is currently on the same mark as Al Boum Photo was when winning the Gold Cup and thats along way off the handicap mark he had at Cheltenham in a race where he gave the winner weight.

As for you saying Aintree hardly proves he stays is the same nonsense we get from the uneducated who say the same about Kempton being an easy 3 miles.

The horse hacked up in the Many Clouds which for the best is only ever won by stayers who end up in races like The Gold Cup the national or the Scottish Grand National.

The most important thing you are missing in the Skelton's uncanny ability to improve horses,

How many 0PfU-horses have they truned out backed of the boards and won with....it's dozens

I am not saying the horse is a certainty what I am saying is the race is a very poor renewal in the same way I said the King george was which of course you disagreed with.


He's a young improving horse who travels well and jumps well and is in very good hands and well worth a sporting bet at the odds.

I have serious doubts about the favourite seeing out the trip who has never won a true test of stamina unless you think Haydock which IMO is an easy 3m counts.

He was outstayed by a horse who I rate in the bottom half of all time Gold Gup winners

Now he's failed to get home against a proper stayer in Galvin who just happened to be racing off exactly the same mark as Protektorat.
 
Oddschecker identifies price cuts across all bookies: those which have shortened are marked blue, and those which have lengthened are marked pink. This is how I identified the price movements. It’s a fairly crude measure, but also one which is used more-or-less universally by anyone commenting on such matters - though if only we had access to your ‘monitoring’ tools, perhaps we’d all be much better informed punters.

At the time of writing, Protektorat is the same exchange price as Al Boum Photo; being available to Back at 16.5 - to the tune of a whacking £20. Not quite the ‘clear’ 4th fave you claim him to be, but close enough not to quibble the point.

You state this is an historically-poor renewal, but then go on to say that the 4th favourite is currently on the same mark as ABP was when he won the race. I think the point is moot anyway - it’s a matter of opinion after all - but it is nonetheless contradictory. It cannot be both historically poor, and yet have the 4th-fave rated the same as the winner was three years ago, going into the race.

Regardless, the right horses are largely at the front-end of the market, and to me, it looks no better or worse a Gold Cup than any run since Don Cossack’s victory. Note that this is a personal view, and not one I have any intention of debating with you further, as it will only lead us down the usual ‘Everything was better in the olden days’ cul-de-sac we heard from you on the Frost/Dunne thread.

As for Dan Skelton, it shouldn’t surprise you to hear I’m familiar with his work. You can have a ‘sporting wager’ on Protektorat for the Gold Cup if you like. What you do with your money is none of my business, and I have zero interest in what you’re backing beyond commenting on the horse’s chance.

Finally, I would add that you’re perfectly entitled to your view on this Gold Cup, the horses likely to run in it, the merits of their form, and where the race fits in historically. Just don’t necessarily expect that opinion to be taken as read or left unchallenged. The forum exists for such matters to be debated.

It’s also wise to remember not to take differences in opinion too personally, as that’s all they are.

Have a nice day…….you doss cu*nt. :)
 
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reet hard said:
Fist
RP standard time 3m ch, Kempton: 5m54s
RP standard time 2m7f ch,Haydock:5m50s
Go figure.
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Aye, reet, it’s apparently an easy three on time, but the speed they always find themselves going to achieve that time makes it difficult for a lot of horses imo - mostly the ones I back:D
 
Grasshopper said:
Oddschecker identifies price cuts across all bookies: those which have shortened are marked blue, and those which have lengthened are marked pink. This is how I identified the price movements. It’s a fairly crude measure, but also one which is used more-or-less universally by anyone commenting on such matters - though if only we had access to your ‘monitoring’ tools, perhaps we’d all be much better informed punters.

At the time of writing, Protektorat is the same exchange price as Al Boum Photo; being available to Back at 16.5 - to the tune of a whacking £20. Not quite the ‘clear’ 4th fave you claim him to be, but close enough not to quibble the point.

You state this is an historically-poor renewal, but then go on to say that the 4th favourite is currently on the same mark as ABP was when he won the race. I think the point is moot anyway - it’s a matter of opinion after all - but it is nonetheless contradictory. It cannot be both historically poor, and yet have the 4th-fave rated the same as the winner was three years ago, going into the race.

Regardless, the right horses are largely at the front-end of the market, and to me, it looks no better or worse a Gold Cup than any run since Don Cossack’s victory. Note that this is a personal view, and not one I have any intention of debating with you further, as it will only lead us down the usual ‘Everything was better in the olden days’ cul-de-sac we heard from you on the Frost/Dunne thread.

As for Dan Skelton, it shouldn’t surprise you to hear I’m familiar with his work. You can have a ‘sporting wager’ on Protektorat for the Gold Cup if you like. What you do with your money is none of my business, and I have zero interest in what you’re backing beyond commenting on the horse’s chance.

Finally, I would add that you’re perfectly entitled to your view on this Gold Cup, the horses likely to run in it, the merits of their form, and where the race fits in historically. Just don’t necessarily expect that opinion to be taken as read or left unchallenged. The forum exists for such matters to be debated.

It’s also wise to remember not to take differences in opinion too personally, as that’s all they are.

Have a nice day…….you doss cu*nt. :)
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 You stopped debating with me so who are you talking to here? and who are you calling Doss:lol:
 
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barjon said:
Aye, reet, it’s apparently an easy three on time, but the speed they always find themselves going to achieve that time makes it difficult for a lot of horses imo - mostly the ones I back:D
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There's no question that the King George can be a solid test, but it remains a test on a flat,featureless course, and Kempton is widely regarded as a speed track because of it.
 
I would have thought it would be 5/1 the field at this stage.

Coral's 5/2 A Plus Tard :lol: They should take their licence off them.

I am convinced Galvin will come out on top on the day and if there is to be a mini shock Protektorat will be the one to provide it
 
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