Road to the Epsom Derby 2011

Re: Frankel/Goldi/Canford - The simple fact at the moment is that Frankel has far better form than the other two at that same stage in their careers. Both have improved, I won't deny that, but Frankel remains an unbeaten Guineas winner so in relative terms (And until they meet) I think he is the better horse :)
 
Aragorn said:
Re: Frankel/Goldi/Canford - The simple fact at the moment is that Frankel has far better form than the other two at that same stage in their careers. Both have improved, I won't deny that, but Frankel remains an unbeaten Guineas winner so in relative terms (And until they meet) I think he is the better horse :)
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I don't think anyone would disagree that Frankel has the best form to this point in his career. But Canford and Goldikova are no longer at this point, they have moved on. Frankel would be better sticking to 3yo company for the time being where he can keep his unbeaten record intact. He'll sober up when he comes up against the real milers.
 
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I can't remember what Goldikova's RPR was for beating Aqlaam that time (It was wrong in my opinion but tha's another argument) but without looking i'm pretty sure Frankel is already rated both of their superiors... Or very close. So the reality is he probably doesn;t need to improve.
 
SteveM said:
I don't think anyone would disagree that Frankel has the best form to this point in his career. But Canford and Goldikova are no longer at this point, they have moved on. Frankel would be better sticking to 3yo company for the time being where he can keep his unbeaten record intact. He'll sober up when he comes up against the real milers.
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Frankel is better than both now..and the bonus is he receives WFA
 
Better only because they have "shown off" his absolute ability. Like I've said before you can't keep showing him off like that.

It will be different when he's matched against these older horses. While WFA is in his favour technically, it is still early for 3yos to be taking on horses of this calibre.

I'm very excited about Frankel and trust Henry to do the right thing. He'll be a real force when they get him to fulfil his potential.
 
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SteveM said:
Better only because they have "shown off" his absolute ability. Like I've said before you can't keep showing him off like that.

It will be different when he's matched against these older horses. While WFA is in his favour technically, it is still early for 3yos to be taking on horses of this calibre.

I'm very excited about Frankel and trust Henry to do the right thing. He'll be a real force when they get him to fulfil his potential.
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But he already shown he was good when held up..but now he is a one trick pony..simply because lto he was run from the front

the power of the last run weighs heavy on people's minds doesn't it?:)

i really hope we see Frankel agsinst tehse good milers

the worst case is that Frankel wins 3 more races at prices of 1/25 against 100 horses...if that happens..we all lose out
 
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EC1 said:
But he already shown he was good when held up..but now he is a one trick pony..simply because lto he was run from the front
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I know he's good and my whole argument for him running in the Derby is that there is more than one string to his bow.

All I'm saying is that he won't be able to take the liberties he took against those 3yos in the Guineas when up against the likes of Canford and co.

I'm very keen on Frankel... more than I can tell you.
 
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Can't agree Steve. Hughes has taken more liberties on Canford Cliffs. Queally was just playing to the colts strength.
 
Racing Post reports that CASAMENTO might not run at Epsom and could well take up the French alternative.

Godolphin also saying that OCEAN WAR will go straight to Epsom but GENIUS BEAST will race in the Hocquart at Longchamp on Sunday as a "trial" for the Derby.
 
Aragorn said:
Can't agree Steve. Hughes has taken more liberties on Canford Cliffs. Queally was just playing to the colts strength.
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They've taken a sledge-hammer to crack a walnut in the Guineas to show his power off. They can't and surely won't keep doing this.
 
He never was going to anyway.

The Derby is done and dusted for me - that was seriously impressive, and there seems to be plenty more to come. A machine.

I'm putting winnings on him there straight onto him for the Derby. I can't think of anything to beat him.
 
2/1 seems fair. I like Ocean War and would back him each way at 33s but I can't see anything to stop him. Am open to alternatives but just don't see it.
 
Quite good, didn't look like stopping.

What would the dosage say about him, Steve, given the conflicting messages on the topside and bottom of his page?

Edit: just checked.

CARLTON HOUSE (USA) b. C, 2008 DP = 6-2-8-6-2 (24) DI = 1.00 CD = 0.17


That looks like he would be okay at 12f.
 
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There's no conflicting message! His dam seems to give her progeny stamina according to the sire. Regardless, racecourse evidence is best and he looks better the further a race goes on in both his last 2 races.
 
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