Road to the Gold Cup 2011

Denman doesn't come into my list of Gold Cup runners, but it will be an emotional finish if he wins it. If the rain hits before Friday, i'll put a small bet on come race day. Been put off Kauto myself, looks like his age is slowly catching up with him, and as Bobbyjo said, Imperial's unwell. But, if I had to choose... Tidal Bay each way.
 
Surely retirement beckons for Kauto? He's had a brilliant career for connections and earned a lot in prize money. Suppose we'll have to see what happens on Friday.
 
Denman by default?..surely not..its not a race where everything is already under par is it?

i read the Weekender this week and the comments in there suggest that this IC stuff is bollox..trainer says he's A1
 
How far off their best form would Denman or KS need to be to win - judging all the negative stuff coming out about so many others ?

imo opinion whoever runs O/R 175+ will win this year - again imo I think Long Run is the only horse capable of that this year - the big question for me is his jockey capable enough? I think the race last year was rated 7lb too high - I believe Denman ran above that mark in the Hennessy but I don't think he can do it at Cheltenham this year because of his age. Imperial Commander has age against him a well and it wasn't a good sign when Tidal Bay closed him down 85% fit or not. The rest aren't good enough except Pandorama who is the unknown if he handles the ground.(could make me eat my words about his trainer earlier in this thread)

The real crying shame is Weapons Amnesty missing as they seldom come back after a year+ off the track. Burton Port and a fit Diamond Harry would have made it interesting as well.
 
China Rock seems to be popular e/w. I believe Gary O'Brien of Attheraces is keen on his place chances at the preview nights.


"China Rock is in great form, touch wood, and the drier the ground the better for him. The going was too soft for him when he was fourth at Leopardstown and he went for home a bit soon so we will forgive him that run," Morris said. "He has been fourth on his two previous appearances at Cheltenham, so we know that he acts round the track. He will be two stone better on a faster surface and realistically I am hoping that he can be placed."
 
Somersby for me. I'm glad he misses the Ryanair because a stormer in that race would really affect his price.

Perhaps so (in terms of distance suitability)... but more so than winning the Champion Chase? I'm not sure that would do much for his price either.

You can often get prices for the following year ahead of them running this year, of course.
 
He'd have a favourite's chance in the Ryanair, a rags chance in the Queen Mother.

Really. I was thinking he might win. The stats are convincing for Arkle winners (Sizing Europe, with Somersby on his heels) taking part in this the following year. Although I'd agree it is not a convincing reason to switch races just because the owner can be there to see it.
 
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Really. I was thinking he might win. The stats are convincing for Arkle winners (Sizing Europe, with Somersby on his heels) taking part in this the following year.

Somersby was flattered last year. Lynch could have held onto SE for longer if he'd wanted to and he idled in front. I accept that the former has improved since however.
 
Somersby was flattered last year. Lynch could have held onto SE for longer if he'd wanted to and he idled in front. I accept that the former has improved since however.

I'm not at all convinced Somersby will be taken off his feet in this - I see a horse thats improving every race and think he now has enough ability to sit just off the pace and be ridden handier and good ground will suit. He's certainly had a better preperation than Sizing Europe. In Fact - he's going to win - you heard it here first. :ninja:
 
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I can't really make head nor tail of this race but I've narrowed it down to four (based on current conditions) and if that changes I'd fancy Pandorama. I'll certainly be leaving it until I see the track tomorrow but I'm looking at the race now and four stick out at me.

Denman - great run in the Hennessy, plenty of time since that run to get over it and had a breathing op. Done nothing wrong and I think he'd have probably beaten Imperial Commander last year had the balls-up in the Aon not occurred. Ground won't be a problem but softer perhaps ideal.

Imperial Commander - hasn't done anything wrong and the big break since his last run certainly won't be a problem and neither will the ground. My only reservations are the fact that the vibes haven't exactly been great about him and also I feel Denman should really have beaten him last year if he hadn't run in the Aon.

Tidal Bay - this one jumps out at me at a nice price. I certainly don't think he'll be good enough to win but I can see him staying on up that hill at a million miles an hour and grabbing third while other horses get tired and go backwards.

Kempes - a bit of an unknown quantity for me really. I'm not sure his form is good enough but he looks to have won the Irish Hennessy a shade cosily last time, and I think I'm right in saying he didn't have his ground there. If the ground stays good he'll certainly have it for the first time in a while and perhaps he's been underestimated a bit here? The irish are certainly flying this week, and Willie Mullins isn't doing badly too.

So, could anyone who knows a bit more than me help me out here? I think I like Kempes but maybe it's just one of those times when you think you're being clever and you're just seeing things that aren't there in reality.

Any thoughts?
 
I think I'm going to go for Kempes. I've learnt before not to doubt yourself and go elsewhere only to see your initial pick win, so I'll stick with it. Having looked through its race, I don't think it's got the strongest form by any means, but the horse has plenty of plus points. For one, he jumps very well, other than his mistake when he unshipped AP at Leopardstown I can't think of any others at all and that one at Leopardstown was probably just a fluke too, he didn't seem to take off at all. He will certainly stay based on his wins over 3m in very soft or heavy ground, so the extra 2 furlongs shouldn't be too much of a problem to him in better conditions. Am I right in saying Leopardstown is a pretty tough track with a fairly sharp uphill finish? It's hard to tell from the videos but if so I wouldn't think Cheltenham would pose him too many problems either. Having watched his last few races the thing that struck me was the lack of pace in the races and I was beginning to think he wouldn't have enough toe as they're sure to go a good gallop tomorrow, but then I looked at a piece of form he had over hurdles at Punchestown where he was second to Hurricane Fly and beat horses such as Riverside Theatre and most notably Go Native. He must have plenty of toe in fairness to be able to run second in that company, so I wouldn't be worried on that front. I thought he was unlucky the day he unseated AP at Leopardstown in the Lexus, as he was going nicely and just starting to come into the race. It's hard to tell but races take some winning there and I've a feeling he'd have gone mighty close to beating Pandorama as when he won there last time out he stayed on strongly up the hill from a similar position. Baring in mind that was ground soft ground (ideal for Pandorama and not Kempes) then he ought to have the beating of him here, and another he should have the beating of is China Rock. As far as stats go he's the right age (between 7 and 9), has run between 2 and 6 times this season, has 6 or more starts over fences and he's won a graded chase this season, all stats which seem to lead to Gold Cup winners. His form certainly isn't the strongest is the race, and isn't good enough to win a Gold Cup at this stage, but he's certainly looked on the upgrade of late and will surely improve again with the better ground?

As for the other contenders, Denman was the other one who stood out to me but I just can't have him winning this because horses are never supposed to regain Gold Cups. Kauto being the only one to do it in all these years, so I just can't imagine another will do it again so soon. I think he'll run another grand race and be placed though, preferably behind Kempes :)

Imperial Commander would of course be the other main danger to Kempes' chances, but his Betfair win didn't impress me greatly, and his preperation doesn't sound to have been as good as last year's. The people who watched his Kempton gallop didn't sound all that impressed either, so I'd have to take him on. Based on Cheltenham form and last year's he should really win, but I can't get overly excited about the horse personally.

Kauto would be an ideal winner for me, I'd love him to bounce back and do it but I just can't see that either. Long Run isn't my idea of the winner based on Cheltenham form, Carruthers isn't good enough and I don't think Neptune Collonges is either, he couldn't win it before so why would he now? What A Friend is a funny horse and not one I imagine is good enough. Pandorama would be of interest if the ground came up Soft but it would probably have to rain from now until the race for that to happen. Weird Al is an interesting runner but on all known form wouldn't be good enough. Midnight Chase will probably make the running with Carruthers and I'd be surprised if he could win but stranger things have happened.

Lastly, the weather. Having looked at the weather it seems to suggest lots of rain (a bit like last year) and that could play into the hands of the likes of Denman, Imperial Commander and Pandorama, but looking at some webcams from Cheltenham it doesn't seem to be raining at the minute.

I'll certainly be waiting till the first race or two has been run before placing my bet, but at this stage all things considered I fancy Kempes to win it for Willie, JP and AP.
 
Am against Kauto Star, Imperial Commander and Denman, so if Long Run doesn't oblige, expect a bit of an upset.

I've never been the biggest fan of LR and may have even arrived at him by default here, but his King George run was impressive and I'm going to put my jockey reservations to one side and support him to run a big race tomorrow.
 
Sick to death of the same old same old Kauto Denman Etc and would love to see Pandorama win and I also like China Rock
 
I'd be astonished if Kempes was good enough to win a Gold Cup, on known form China Rock makes more appeal of the two Irish who like good ground [Pandorama better than both if he gets his conditions..]. Mouse will have him tuned up. Get the impression with Kempes that they've stumbled on this as a plan rather than it being a master strategy but could be wrong...
 
Carruthers looks big at 66/1 each way. I'd rather him than Tidal Bay, China Rock, Midnight Chase, Neptune Collonges who are all much shorter. Just done out of third in this last year, and the ground will suit even more this time. So many with doubts at the front of the betting means he has every chance of placing again.
 
I'd be astonished if Kempes was good enough to win a Gold Cup, on known form China Rock makes more appeal of the two Irish who like good ground [Pandorama better than both if he gets his conditions..]. Mouse will have him tuned up. Get the impression with Kempes that they've stumbled on this as a plan rather than it being a master strategy but could be wrong...


I fear him more than Imperial Commander. Don't take this as gospel but over at Redcafe I've just read this:



Just been speaking to Willie Mullins and he said that Kempes is absolutely going to smash the Gold Cup today,he said the horse is looking so strong and told me to and I quote "bet your feckin house on it son"
Not going to go that mad but will have a cheeky £50 on it.
 
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