Sea The Stars - Retirement Announced
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ItalianStallion
Guest
So thats two track records Sea The Stars has broken in one season, what is stopping him from being the best racehorse that has ever graced earth?
Shadow Leader
At the Start
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- Nov 9, 2003
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- 9,884
I think Sea The Stars will beat Fame And Glory wherever they meet, be that the Irish Champion or the Arc. I think he he's had less of a hard campaign than people think he has as in a race the horse is always keeping a little bit to himself; this can be seen in the way he dosses then wins cosily, but with minimum fuss and without being flashy about it.
I've got nothing but admiration for STS... but I'm on Fame if they meet.
I can't see how he could beat Fame now (he certainly didn't have a supposed 10lb in hand over Mastercraftsman today), but I agree he is quite extraordinary.
Last edited:
Nefertiti
At the Start
Galileo wrote:
How close does this take him to a 20-day ban under the totting up procedure?
There's been a lot of criticism of the procedure on C4 recently with claims of punishing the jockey twice over. What does everyone think? Or should this go on another thread?
How close does this take him to a 20-day ban under the totting up procedure?
There's been a lot of criticism of the procedure on C4 recently with claims of punishing the jockey twice over. What does everyone think? Or should this go on another thread?
Shadow Leader
At the Start
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2003
- Messages
- 9,884
I think you're slightly missing the point I'm making, Steve. Sea The Stars only does what he absolutely has to, and spends half the race dossing. In fact throughout the race he looked to me like he was having a lob along the gallops at home! So he's not going to put in ratings-busting performances from the point of view that in running his race he confirms the 10lb difference over the horse he is racing against each time.
The thing is, we don't know how good he is as he keeps a bit for himself and doesn't win by more than he has to. I certainly don't think he has anything to worry about in Fame And Glory.
Irish Champion Stakes Entries:
Casual Conquest
Cima De Triomphe
Doctor Fremantle
Famous Name
Lord Admiral
Poet (GB)
Red Rock Canyon
Tartan Bearer
Twice Over
Mad About You
Bridge Of Gold
Fame And Glory
Gan Amhras
Grand Ducal
Loch Long
Malibu Bay
Mastercraftsman
Rip Van Winkle
Rockhampton
Sea The Stars
Set Sail
Zacinto
Casual Conquest
Cima De Triomphe
Doctor Fremantle
Famous Name
Lord Admiral
Poet (GB)
Red Rock Canyon
Tartan Bearer
Twice Over
Mad About You
Bridge Of Gold
Fame And Glory
Gan Amhras
Grand Ducal
Loch Long
Malibu Bay
Mastercraftsman
Rip Van Winkle
Rockhampton
Sea The Stars
Set Sail
Zacinto
May be worth a significant bet on Fame - worst case scenrario you can hedge for a little loss.
Really? It's one thing saying you fancy Fame And Glory to reverse the form or that you think he represents value - it's a perfectly valid point of view - but how on earth can you be unable to "see how" Sea The Stars could beat him?
Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2005
- Messages
- 25,009
A couple of lay person's observations:
1. I thought STS was a lot warmer before the race today than in any other race this season. I thought he looked warm down the shoulders and he was clearly sweating between his legs, something he hadn't done before. I was worried before the race he might not show his form.
2. I was screaming at Kinane NOT to follow MCM through the gap in the pacemakers. It didn't happen but there was a perfect opportunity for the riders of the others to close him in.
3. I was screaming even louder when Kinane took a pull just as Murtagh was kicking. HUGE mistake, I thought. Gave MCM first run and momentum. From being right up MCM's arse, he was a good three lengths down on a horse that was gathering impetus.
4. After the race Francome opined that STS had "five or six lengths" to spare. Fallon said the horse was very switched off and that probably made it harder for Kinane to get him down to business. (Personally, I think the pull did made the job look harder.)
5. Given pt 1 above, I wonder if STS is feeling the effects of his season.
1. I thought STS was a lot warmer before the race today than in any other race this season. I thought he looked warm down the shoulders and he was clearly sweating between his legs, something he hadn't done before. I was worried before the race he might not show his form.
2. I was screaming at Kinane NOT to follow MCM through the gap in the pacemakers. It didn't happen but there was a perfect opportunity for the riders of the others to close him in.
3. I was screaming even louder when Kinane took a pull just as Murtagh was kicking. HUGE mistake, I thought. Gave MCM first run and momentum. From being right up MCM's arse, he was a good three lengths down on a horse that was gathering impetus.
4. After the race Francome opined that STS had "five or six lengths" to spare. Fallon said the horse was very switched off and that probably made it harder for Kinane to get him down to business. (Personally, I think the pull did made the job look harder.)
5. Given pt 1 above, I wonder if STS is feeling the effects of his season.
EC1
On a break
a good win imo
when went between the two pacemakers he asked STS to quicken..which he did..then he eased off so as not to hit the front too soon..and asked again..he eventually responded..superb
MCM is one good yardstick and at the end STS was going away..if he had not had the pacemakers to quicken through he would have won easier
anyone thinks STS doesn't stay is wrong imo..he was doing his best work in the last furlong today over a test that is viewed as a decent 12f prep
i enjoyed the race..why folk think STS can't win the Irish Champion is beyond me tbh..he just does enough each time and will do so again against F&G
when went between the two pacemakers he asked STS to quicken..which he did..then he eased off so as not to hit the front too soon..and asked again..he eventually responded..superb
MCM is one good yardstick and at the end STS was going away..if he had not had the pacemakers to quicken through he would have won easier
anyone thinks STS doesn't stay is wrong imo..he was doing his best work in the last furlong today over a test that is viewed as a decent 12f prep
i enjoyed the race..why folk think STS can't win the Irish Champion is beyond me tbh..he just does enough each time and will do so again against F&G
It really will be fascinating if they let Fame And Glory take on Sea The Stars in conditions that are likely to play to STS strengths - good ground or better over 10 furlongs.
I personally think Fame And Glory would have every chance of beating STS on any ground in a strongly run 12 furlong race - that is just my opinion. But like others on here (bar Steve) I would not fancy Fame to beat him in over 10 furlongs unless the ground was soft but Oxx will not let him have that chance so their only meeting over 10 furlongs will be on fast ground.
But Coolmore/O'Brien must surely realise these same doubts and this has been the plan for Fame a long time ago. I do not think he will beat STS in these conditions but clearly Coolmore think they have a chance otherwise why would they pitch him in there?
I personally think Fame And Glory would have every chance of beating STS on any ground in a strongly run 12 furlong race - that is just my opinion. But like others on here (bar Steve) I would not fancy Fame to beat him in over 10 furlongs unless the ground was soft but Oxx will not let him have that chance so their only meeting over 10 furlongs will be on fast ground.
But Coolmore/O'Brien must surely realise these same doubts and this has been the plan for Fame a long time ago. I do not think he will beat STS in these conditions but clearly Coolmore think they have a chance otherwise why would they pitch him in there?
Agree with EC there.
Nothing in F&G's running so far has suggested that he would be best at 10f and he has to be, to have any chance of beating this great horse
I suspect that Oxx will not run him in the Irish champion. Hes a cautious trainer and now he has two group 1's over 10f, the focus will surely be on getting him fresh for the autumn. Its a hard ask though
Nothing in F&G's running so far has suggested that he would be best at 10f and he has to be, to have any chance of beating this great horse
I suspect that Oxx will not run him in the Irish champion. Hes a cautious trainer and now he has two group 1's over 10f, the focus will surely be on getting him fresh for the autumn. Its a hard ask though
EC1
On a break
maybe it might be worth keeping them both back for the Arc
then we can really see which horses is number one
although..to me its clear which one is best..you F&G lovers won't have it even though you are 1-0 down already
then we can really see which horses is number one
although..to me its clear which one is best..you F&G lovers won't have it even though you are 1-0 down already
Fresh for the Autumn? For what though? A wet Arc? Or straight to the Breeders Cup Classic without a run between now and then? He will run in the Irish Champion for sure - ground permitting.
I agree with what you say - "nothing in F&G's running so far suggested that he would be best at 10 furlongs" - my question is why have they long aimed him at it when they have other possible contenders?
Colin Phillips
At the Start
Rating for today's run, anyone?
About 10lbs. lower than The Eclipse?
About 10lbs. lower than The Eclipse?