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Sea The Stars - Retirement Announced

So thats two track records Sea The Stars has broken in one season, what is stopping him from being the best racehorse that has ever graced earth?
 
I think Sea The Stars will beat Fame And Glory wherever they meet, be that the Irish Champion or the Arc. I think he he's had less of a hard campaign than people think he has as in a race the horse is always keeping a little bit to himself; this can be seen in the way he dosses then wins cosily, but with minimum fuss and without being flashy about it.
 
Murtagh got a 4 day ban for his ride on MCM for whip abuse.....runs up to but does not include the 5th September - lucky man who is free to ride in the Irish Champion Stakes.
 
Hamm said:
It's worth remembering that Sea the Stars is beating very good horses time and again, and despite him looking like he does it cosily, these races leave a mark. His temperament gives him a chance, and it will be some training feat by Oxx to get him back to a peak again.
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I've got nothing but admiration for STS... but I'm on Fame if they meet.
 
Shadow Leader said:
I think Sea The Stars will beat Fame And Glory wherever they meet, be that the Irish Champion or the Arc. I think he he's had less of a hard campaign than people think he has as in a race the horse is always keeping a little bit to himself; this can be seen in the way he dosses then wins cosily, but with minimum fuss and without being flashy about it.
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I can't see how he could beat Fame now (he certainly didn't have a supposed 10lb in hand over Mastercraftsman today), but I agree he is quite extraordinary.
 
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Galileo wrote:

Murtagh got a 4 day ban for his ride on MCM for whip abuse.....runs up to but does not include the 5th September - lucky man who is free to ride in the Irish Champion Stakes.
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How close does this take him to a 20-day ban under the totting up procedure?
There's been a lot of criticism of the procedure on C4 recently with claims of punishing the jockey twice over. What does everyone think? Or should this go on another thread?
 
SteveM said:
I can't see how he could beat Fame now (he certainly didn't have a supposed 10lb in hand over Mastercraftsman today), but I agree he is quite extraordinary.
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I think you're slightly missing the point I'm making, Steve. Sea The Stars only does what he absolutely has to, and spends half the race dossing. In fact throughout the race he looked to me like he was having a lob along the gallops at home! So he's not going to put in ratings-busting performances from the point of view that in running his race he confirms the 10lb difference over the horse he is racing against each time.

The thing is, we don't know how good he is as he keeps a bit for himself and doesn't win by more than he has to. I certainly don't think he has anything to worry about in Fame And Glory.
 
The Paddy Power prices have me thinking....is it simply a matter of 1/2 the ground is good or better or 7/4 softer than good?
 
Fame and Glory has run the same number of times as Sea the stars this year. Can't see it making that much difference to be honest.

This fella is a cut above the rest and Fame and Glory will be some racehorse if he can beat him.
 
Irish Champion Stakes Entries:

Casual Conquest
Cima De Triomphe
Doctor Fremantle
Famous Name
Lord Admiral
Poet (GB)
Red Rock Canyon
Tartan Bearer
Twice Over
Mad About You
Bridge Of Gold
Fame And Glory
Gan Amhras
Grand Ducal
Loch Long
Malibu Bay
Mastercraftsman
Rip Van Winkle
Rockhampton
Sea The Stars
Set Sail
Zacinto
 
U000012506142051.jpg
 
Galileo said:
The Paddy Power prices have me thinking....is it simply a matter of 1/2 the ground is good or better or 7/4 softer than good?
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May be worth a significant bet on Fame - worst case scenrario you can hedge for a little loss.
 
SteveM said:
I can't see how he could beat Fame now
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Really? It's one thing saying you fancy Fame And Glory to reverse the form or that you think he represents value - it's a perfectly valid point of view - but how on earth can you be unable to "see how" Sea The Stars could beat him?
 
A couple of lay person's observations:

1. I thought STS was a lot warmer before the race today than in any other race this season. I thought he looked warm down the shoulders and he was clearly sweating between his legs, something he hadn't done before. I was worried before the race he might not show his form.

2. I was screaming at Kinane NOT to follow MCM through the gap in the pacemakers. It didn't happen but there was a perfect opportunity for the riders of the others to close him in.

3. I was screaming even louder when Kinane took a pull just as Murtagh was kicking. HUGE mistake, I thought. Gave MCM first run and momentum. From being right up MCM's arse, he was a good three lengths down on a horse that was gathering impetus.

4. After the race Francome opined that STS had "five or six lengths" to spare. Fallon said the horse was very switched off and that probably made it harder for Kinane to get him down to business. (Personally, I think the pull did made the job look harder.)

5. Given pt 1 above, I wonder if STS is feeling the effects of his season.
 
I think it must have been very humid at York, I saw Murtagh using a scraper on MCM down at the start.
 
I know Gal, but that's the first time I've seen any horse having the sweat scraped off of him.
 
a good win imo

when went between the two pacemakers he asked STS to quicken..which he did..then he eased off so as not to hit the front too soon..and asked again..he eventually responded..superb

MCM is one good yardstick and at the end STS was going away..if he had not had the pacemakers to quicken through he would have won easier

anyone thinks STS doesn't stay is wrong imo..he was doing his best work in the last furlong today over a test that is viewed as a decent 12f prep

i enjoyed the race..why folk think STS can't win the Irish Champion is beyond me tbh..he just does enough each time and will do so again against F&G
 
It really will be fascinating if they let Fame And Glory take on Sea The Stars in conditions that are likely to play to STS strengths - good ground or better over 10 furlongs.

I personally think Fame And Glory would have every chance of beating STS on any ground in a strongly run 12 furlong race - that is just my opinion. But like others on here (bar Steve) I would not fancy Fame to beat him in over 10 furlongs unless the ground was soft but Oxx will not let him have that chance so their only meeting over 10 furlongs will be on fast ground.

But Coolmore/O'Brien must surely realise these same doubts and this has been the plan for Fame a long time ago. I do not think he will beat STS in these conditions but clearly Coolmore think they have a chance otherwise why would they pitch him in there?
 
Agree with EC there.

Nothing in F&G's running so far has suggested that he would be best at 10f and he has to be, to have any chance of beating this great horse

I suspect that Oxx will not run him in the Irish champion. Hes a cautious trainer and now he has two group 1's over 10f, the focus will surely be on getting him fresh for the autumn. Its a hard ask though
 
maybe it might be worth keeping them both back for the Arc

then we can really see which horses is number one :cool:

although..to me its clear which one is best..you F&G lovers won't have it even though you are 1-0 down already:p
 
clivex said:
Agree with EC there.

Nothing in F&G's running so far has suggested that he would be best at 10f and he has to be, to have any chance of beating this great horse

I suspect that Oxx will not run him in the Irish champion. Hes a cautious trainer and now he has two group 1's over 10f, the focus will surely be on getting him fresh for the autumn. Its a hard ask though
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Fresh for the Autumn? For what though? A wet Arc? Or straight to the Breeders Cup Classic without a run between now and then? He will run in the Irish Champion for sure - ground permitting.

I agree with what you say - "nothing in F&G's running so far suggested that he would be best at 10 furlongs" - my question is why have they long aimed him at it when they have other possible contenders?
 
I'd say perhaps 127, but as I said earlier it's completely subjective, and hard to argue with.
 
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