EC1
On a break
they would have been mopping all the races up without him thats for sure.
Sea The Stars - Retirement Announced
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International Stakes = +3.62 (Good to Firm fast side of and verging towards Firm, G/F in places, indeed this latter description wouldn't be far off being given and might actually be nearer)
Eclipse = +2.89 (Good to Firm)
Derby = +2.39 (Good to Firm, Good in places)
Guineas = +1.82 (a tad quicker than Good, something like Good, Good to Firm in places) - I normally reckon perfect Good ground falls within +1.75 and -1.50.
I'm not sure he didn't twice have to face a bit of 'kick back' to be honest which he momentarily seemed to react to with a degree of hestitancy? You'd need to check again but a couple of huge dusty puffs went up and he ran straight into them (I could be imaging things though
)Couldn't tell you about watering, but I wouldn't be averse to betting for firm ground tomorrow if they don't. Four of the six winners beat standard time and that includes four 2yo's in the Acomb
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Although the RP don't seem to have acknowledged it (anything to do with tailwinds and legal requirements?) but Elusive Pimpernel has betaen Vital Equines 2yo track record over 7F I think? by 0.84 secs. Indeed the 2yo winner of the Acomb has got within 0.31 secs of Iffraaj's all age record and that was set at Royal Ascot in blistering conditions
EC1
On a break
tailwind definately helped the times..but obviously not help STS whilst racing down the back...to be fair the round and straight should not be treated the same..time wise
if you just look at the 10f handicap the time of the juddmonte is awesome..does anyone think that 10f handicap was slowly run?
if you just look at the 10f handicap the time of the juddmonte is awesome..does anyone think that 10f handicap was slowly run?
I didn't mean to suggest that you did - thought Kinane's comments were interesting though.
Both the top two today were returning from breaks....I think it is only natural that there is something to work on but its all relative. I do not think it made a difference to the figures they ran to today and it certainly did not show in either of their appearances. He is not the type of horse that would or could do well for a break - as he is quite leathal when fresh and can be a bit of a boyo at home which might be hard to believe considering how relaxed he is at home. He was kept on the go throughout the winter just to keep his back down - hence the set back he had earlier in the season was not as serious as it could have been as he was quite fit and forward when he had it.
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Topspeed have given him a rating of 132 at the moment. They only gave him 129 for the Eclipse.
The role of Coolmore's pacemakers must be acknowledged also. They have now helped him set good ratings by setting a strong fair pace in this and the Eclipse. Aidan O'Brien has stated on more than a few occassions that they use pacemakers to ensure a good gallop which usually enables the best horse to win. I know there has been the odd exception over the years, but that has generally been the case. Coolmore have also allowed us to get an idea of just how good a horse he is. Their willingness to take him on with their best horses and not avoid him to pick up easy group ones elsewhere should be welcomed. Alas, I'm sure many will question their motives as always, looking for more complicated explanations than the obvious one, namely, that they like their best horses to take on the best horses around and explore the limits of their, and their opponents, abilities.
The role of Coolmore's pacemakers must be acknowledged also. They have now helped him set good ratings by setting a strong fair pace in this and the Eclipse. Aidan O'Brien has stated on more than a few occassions that they use pacemakers to ensure a good gallop which usually enables the best horse to win. I know there has been the odd exception over the years, but that has generally been the case. Coolmore have also allowed us to get an idea of just how good a horse he is. Their willingness to take him on with their best horses and not avoid him to pick up easy group ones elsewhere should be welcomed. Alas, I'm sure many will question their motives as always, looking for more complicated explanations than the obvious one, namely, that they like their best horses to take on the best horses around and explore the limits of their, and their opponents, abilities.
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What opponents? A four-horse race, where 50% of the field were there to make the pace and blow out. He looked laboured rather than heavy, although he's hardly a lightweight in build. Yes, he's a very lovable horse and yes, he's snapped up the 2000 Guineas and the Derby, which is no mean accomplishment, as we know. But today was hardly a spectacle. Maybe the heat and humidity which Ardross says was present made them all struggle a bit, but, while I know it's heresy to cast the tiniest aspersion on the huge O'Brien bandwagon (and I can see the pyre being assembled as I type), there are times to get a bit of grip on reality: today was a match race in all but name, and he was given a darn good run for the rosette by his one real opponent.
Why is this O'Brien's fault?
Out of curiousity, what did he give Set Sail in both races?
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He got 60 in the Eclipse and 72 today. In between, he got a Topspeed rating of 12 in a Fairyhouse race where he came second. He twice earned TS ratings of 98 last season. Not that it all means very much in this context.
If Sea The Stars had been put in training in France, Hong Kong or anywhere else other than than Ireland or the UK, this would already be another vintage year for Coolmore.
By the way, if today's race had been run at Leopardstown or the Curragh some would have labelled it an uncompetitive Irish Gr1. The same people will say it about the Irish Champion Stakes and lobby for STS to run in the Arc. They already said it about his intended run in the Irish Derby.
I remember John Oxx remarking during Alamshar's season how difficult it is to get a horse to the apex of its form in the first place and to keep it there for more than a couple of months. There's a difficult choice to be made between making the most of a horse while it's fit and healthy and holding off for later targets. Giving horses a short break at this time of year is no guarantee that they'll give of their best into the autumn. The French often give horses a summer break but not this late in the season.
By the way, if today's race had been run at Leopardstown or the Curragh some would have labelled it an uncompetitive Irish Gr1. The same people will say it about the Irish Champion Stakes and lobby for STS to run in the Arc. They already said it about his intended run in the Irish Derby.
I remember John Oxx remarking during Alamshar's season how difficult it is to get a horse to the apex of its form in the first place and to keep it there for more than a couple of months. There's a difficult choice to be made between making the most of a horse while it's fit and healthy and holding off for later targets. Giving horses a short break at this time of year is no guarantee that they'll give of their best into the autumn. The French often give horses a summer break but not this late in the season.
Harbinger
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Any chance you could explain what you're disagreeing with? I'm totally lost (it is late...).
He wasn't so what is the point of these 'if's?
Clearly you are referring to me - why not be straight and come out and say who you mean? The ambiguity in your post does you no favours.
Please read my earlier post where I asked has the race now become a farce, and also read my post where I said I would love him to go for the Irish Champion which is one of my favourite races of the year. The only doubt I expressed is the difficulty in winning the Irish Champion 18 days after a race such as yesterday's, run against a very good horse on ast ground - I will however take on board that Oxx left something to work on, and some people better placed than I (those at the track for example) say the horse is absolutely fine, and should have no problems turning up in peak condition for Leopardstown.
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New Approach ran in the Juddmonte International and came out and won the Irish Champion next time out - it is very "do- able"....Dylan Thomas the same though he was an older horse.
I do not think Grey was referring to yourself solely Hamm....there have been plenty on here in the past ridiculed or sneered at Irish Group 1 and Grade 1s for small fields or slow paced races. Something I mentioned at the time of the Epsom Derby - if the race was run in France the vast majority would have been questioning the validity of the form given how the race was run.
I do not think Grey was referring to yourself solely Hamm....there have been plenty on here in the past ridiculed or sneered at Irish Group 1 and Grade 1s for small fields or slow paced races. Something I mentioned at the time of the Epsom Derby - if the race was run in France the vast majority would have been questioning the validity of the form given how the race was run.
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