Sea The Stars - Retirement Announced

if he had speed AOB would have run him over shorter distances as a 3yo..we all know how AOB likes to win with a horses at the extremes of its abilities distance wise

Steve..you are totally absorbed with the horse..it won't matter what anyone says you have made your mind up that F&G is a superhorse..when in fact you have one staring you in the face in STS
 
On my figures F&G indeed put up a higher figure at the Curragh - on a line through Golden Sword - than STS did either in the Guineas or at Epsom. I'm not sure I would question the value of the Curragh form either. However, there can be no doubt STS wasn't fully extended the way F&G was and Epsom proved that off a moderate pace he has too much speed for F&G. The Eclipse showed us exactly what kind of beast we had on our hands. Even then, most observers felt STS had plenty in reserve.

I reckon to assume F&G is capable of showing the same increase in performance is very dangerous territory if you're going to abck up the assumption - belief even - with hard cash.

F&G will still have to find 8lbs on my figures to be in with a squeak of beating STS. That's a huge amount at the top level.
 
Fair play to you Steve, you stick to your guns, as you did with Rainbow View. I'd echo what others have said, I could see Fame beating him over 1m4f on ground with ease in it but nothing else.

Sea The Stars is a once in a decade horse, I've not backed him in any of his starts but sometimes you just have to step back and admire what an amazing equine performer we have on our hands.

I'd rather see them both in the Arc than the Irish Champion as I think you have more chance of proving yourself right and at the same time Sea The Stars has the best opportunity to prove you (and others who believe he's vulnerable over 1m4f at a strong pace) completely wrong as I think even if Fame loses in Ireland, you'd still wade in again on Arc day?

I think had Sea The Stars not been around this year, we'd all be giving Fame the plaudits for what a brilliant colt he is (of a similar ilk to what STS has had said about him) but unfortunately for Fame, there has been one better than him this year.
 
The Racing Post have downgraded F&G's rating in the Irish Derby to 126. In contrast, Rip Van Winkle has since run a 132 and 131, and Sea The Stars a 134 and 131.

Prior to this week, Timeform's top 3yos were:

136p Sea The Stars
134 Rip Van Winkle
129 Fame And Glory
126 Mastercraftsman
 
I think had Sea The Stars not been around this year, we'd all be giving Fame the plaudits for what a brilliant colt he is (of a similar ilk to what STS has had said about him) but unfortunately for Fame, there has been one better than him this year.

that wouldn't be the case with people that speed rate Stan, STS is a lot better than F&G in that area..DO has STS a better horse on his form + speed figures as well..so I doubt very much that F&G would rate any higher than an average horse of his generation.

People are still forgetting that when it came to the Derby...AOB's main hope was RVW..and he geared the race to suit him..NOT F&G..so which of those two horses do you think the trainer + jockey think the better horse?..something that RVW has now shown on the track

so up to press F&G is only 3rd best this season
 
Agreed but most people don't speed rate EC1 and my argument is that FAG would be getting the same plaudits that STS is getting now were STS not around.
 
without sts

on form + speed f&g is an average 3yo leader of the pack..so he wouldn't be being called a superstar in my opinion because his ratings aren't at that level..he would also have competion from the best 3yo..RVW
 
EC1 said:
Steve..you are totally absorbed with the horse..it won't matter what anyone says you have made your mind up that F&G is a superhorse..when in fact you have one staring you in the face in STS
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Absorbed indeed, ­ the colt is a joy. He’s got it all – speed, stamina, temperament, resolve. If he hadn’t been ridden like a non-stayer in the Derby he may well still be unbeaten.
That said I’m a big fan of STS who (along with Mastercraftman) I was sweet on ahead of the Guineas, when he was still unfamiliar to many. STS has shown us what he can do… It’s Fame’s turn and time now.
 
EC1 said:
without sts

on form + speed f&g is an average 3yo leader of the pack..so he wouldn't be being called a superstar in my opinion because his ratings aren't at that level..he would also have competion from the best 3yo..RVW
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...with STS he still will be, when we have seen both ridden to their respective strengths.
 
Rain due during the week, but it is really positive that Good is current description given the state of the ground everywhere else.
 
SteveM said:
If he hadn’t been ridden like a non-stayer in the Derby he may well still be unbeaten.
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I could agree with his possibly still being unbeaten but it would only ever apply so long as he didn't take on STS on fast ground at 10f.

Now that we know what STS can do and how much better it is than the most generous reading of F&G's Curragh win, the result over 12f on fast ground might go STS's way too. It would maybe be a bit like Brigadier Gerard running in the King George as a 4yo. Not as good as over shorter but maybe with enough class to prevail.
 
Desert Orchid said:
I could agree with his possibly still being unbeaten but it would only ever apply so long as he didn't take on STS on fast ground at 10f.

Now that we know what STS can do and how much better it is than the most generous reading of F&G's Curragh win, the result over 12f on fast ground might go STS's way too. It would maybe be a bit like Brigadier Gerard running in the King George as a 4yo. Not as good as over shorter but maybe with enough class to prevail.
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You may well know what STS can do... I fear you don't yet know what Fame can do.:cool:
 
SteveM said:
You may well know what STS can do... I fear you don't yet know what Fame can do.:cool:
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I think we do..how many times has he run now?

I would be agreeing with you if he had won our Derby..if he is the wonder horse you say.. he should have took off there and showed us all this killer speed he has

i've not seen anyone have an allegiance this strong for a while now Steve..you will be marrying the bugger next:p
 
EC1 said:
I think we do..how many times has he run now?

I would be agreeing with you if he had won our Derby..if he is the wonder horse you say.. he should have took off there and showed us all this killer speed he has

i've not seen anyone have an allegiance this strong for a while now Steve..you will be marrying the bugger next:p
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I feel sad for those that just don’t get it… this is the one.

And yes the banns are being read for the third time of asking. :<3:
 
you will have earned the right to gloat imo

i've been in this stuation on here arguing madison du beralais kempton win were summat special..when most thought it a shite win..had to eat some crud at Celtenham like..but it all came good after

so will wish you good luck

just to add..he won't beat STS at any trip whilst there is a hole in his arse though :)
 
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