Narcotic Nora
Apprentice
For those who don't rate Fame and Glory (particularly over 10f), if Sea The Stars didn't turn up then would you not make him vulnerable against the likes of Casual Conquest or Dr Freemantle?
Sea The Stars - Retirement Announced
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Both of these are in my opinion no better than 116/117 horses, so I think even though the trip would be far from ideal, if Fame and Glory ran to the level he ran to over 10 furlongs in the Spring he should have no problems.
We've moved on since then. While that may of been the feeling at the time (a wrong one I might add). They feel that Fame has improved again since the Irish Derby... be in no doubt that Fame will finish the season as the top-rated Ballydoyle colt and don't be surprised if he finishes the season top-rated colt full stop if he faces STS.
Never forget that I know a bit more about good horses than Murtagh.
This was late July well after the Irish Derby .
Steve,
You seem to be basing a lot of your faith on the fact (I personally haven't seen it reported but perhaps you know things I don't) that Fame and Glory has reportedly come on since the Irish Derby.
His form doesn't entitle him to be mentioned in the same class as Rip Van Winkle, let alone Sea the Stars.
You seem to be basing a lot of your faith on the fact (I personally haven't seen it reported but perhaps you know things I don't
) that Fame and Glory has reportedly come on since the Irish Derby. His form doesn't entitle him to be mentioned in the same class as Rip Van Winkle, let alone Sea the Stars.
That might be the case, but chances are Fame And Glory is likely to step up significantly on his past form as was the case with Rip Van Winkle and Mastercraftsman. Enough to improve past Sea The Stars over 10 furlong? Doubtful but he clearly merits plenty of respect given his connections and the very fact that he is turning up at all.
Leopardstown have updated their going again this morning.
It has now dried out to Good, Good To Yielding in places.
Forecast from the racecourse is as follows – Risk of some light drizzle this afternoon, mainly dry or Friday and Saturday. Very warm on Sunday and Monday with some possible light drizzle. Risk of some light rain on Tuesday with present indications being for sunny spells and showers for the later half of next week.
It has now dried out to Good, Good To Yielding in places.
Forecast from the racecourse is as follows – Risk of some light drizzle this afternoon, mainly dry or Friday and Saturday. Very warm on Sunday and Monday with some possible light drizzle. Risk of some light rain on Tuesday with present indications being for sunny spells and showers for the later half of next week.
No more respect than Mastercraftsman. Similar in that same connections (obviously!) and both moving distance to 10 furlongs but the difference being that the move in distance should have suited Mastercraftsman more than it will suit Fame and Glory.
EC1
On a break
he can run a 10f figure similar to his english derby run..which was in effect a stretched out 10f
if he was capabable of better at 10f then he would have won the derby
if he was capabable of better at 10f then he would have won the derby
Forget the Derby. If they were trying to get him beat in the Derby they wouldn't have ridden him much differently (and he still finished runner-up ahead of RVW). He came on for the Derby to post the highest rating by a 3yo all season in the Irish Derby (at that point). A couple of weeks after that they were talking of him coming on again (out of all proportion to what went before).
However, I'm not basing my idea of him on reports of his homework. I have seen the colt run and now know what he can do when ridden to full effect. The form of the Irish Derby itself was not strong, but the performance of the winner was quite brilliant.
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating of it... you'll see. Just hope it is pudding and not a large slice of humble pie.
...it won't be.
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EC1
On a break
how you can see F&G beating STS in a 10f race is beyond me Steve tbh..they have already met in a "10f race" and STS won easily..the argument was that if that race had been run faster..STS would have struggled..so the argument was that the more stamina needed suited F&G..so how come when stamina is not at a premium F&G is suddenly capable of winning?
chroniclandlord
Senior Jockey
I'd say that at 12f Fame and Glory can better his current rating. Possibly up to and above 130.
126-127 might be as good as he is capable of at 10f. That would be allowing for some improvement since June, but given that he is quite lightly raced ( 6 career starts ), and didn't run until October as a 2yo, significant improvement shouldn't be ruled out and a higher mark isn't impossible.
126-127 might be as good as he is capable of at 10f. That would be allowing for some improvement since June, but given that he is quite lightly raced ( 6 career starts ), and didn't run until October as a 2yo, significant improvement shouldn't be ruled out and a higher mark isn't impossible.
I
ItalianStallion
Guest
Will Tartan Bearer be running? last time I checked he was 65's on Betfair which suggests he isn't, but if STS is withdrawn and Tartan Bearer runs I'll happily take Fame and Glory on with him.
chroniclandlord
Senior Jockey
Tartan Bearer is out for the season as far as I know.
The market up to the race will tell us alot regarding how genuine the confidence Ballydoyle do have in Fame And Glory. Neither Mastercraftsman nor Rip Van Winkle were ever seriously punted on in the market so it will be interesting to see how it develops.
If there is support for him, I would be keen to get on him (again) for the Arc instead.
If there is support for him, I would be keen to get on him (again) for the Arc instead.
A hunch (and that is all it can possibly be given our unreliable weather forecast) is ground on the easy side of good.
It's a myth that he must have a stamina test. He will be barely inconvenienced by a drop back to 10 furlongs and will relish anything beyond that. He has a wide effective stamina range. The key to him, as I may have said before is pace. He can lay up with the fastest pace and move through the gears off of it. He is a galloper so does not appear to quicken instantly, but he may well out gallop any burst of speed from STS. He is capable of running a very high rating at 10 furlongs or 12.
You should get on him for the Arc now, as you should have at 14s, 12s and 6s. He'll be unbackable for the Arc after the Champion Stakes and will not be great value if he comes in any more than he is already... the Arc takes a hell of a lot of winning, even more than facing STS in the Irish Champion Stakes I would suggest.
I have him backed for the Arc previously.
Why is it a myth?
Hes most certainly bred strongly for stamina and they were sending over 10f at two. You dont exctly do that with a miler do you?
And has been said over and over, he just looks like he needs every inch
10f would have to be his optimum distance to have any chance with an on form STS (and i do slightly worry about the gap since York). It is almost certainly not....
Hes most certainly bred strongly for stamina and they were sending over 10f at two. You dont exctly do that with a miler do you?
And has been said over and over, he just looks like he needs every inch
10f would have to be his optimum distance to have any chance with an on form STS (and i do slightly worry about the gap since York). It is almost certainly not....