So You Think - substance or hype ?

Hamm said:
Then Rewilding.
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Given your low opinion of So You Think pre-race and Planteur both pre and post race, how do you justify this statement?

I don't disagree with the statement but I find it strange, even a touch contradictory that you rate him so highly given your comments about his opposition today.
 
Gamla Stan said:
If it had been over 1m4f, I would have had a huge EW bet on Rewilding. I think the horse has proved he's upto this level although the proximity of Sri Putra is a slight concern but no matter what you think of So You Think, I reckon both horses deserve high 120s, if not 130 for today's race.

Well done for keeping the faith.
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Totally. The race has got a history of 12f winners though. I think I'm too dogmatic re trips these days.
 
Is it just me or does anyone else think Joseph O'brien's inexperience might have cost SYT the race? Jan Vermeer was very slow out of the stalls, though whether that was the horse or the jock, personally couldn't tell. So SYT find himself in front. Atjebi on the supposed godolphin front runner deliberately holds back his horse to make SYT lead. J.O. finally gets Jan Vermeer to the front but in his haste to do so chops off SYT. Did those happenings at the beginning of the race cost the neck difference? Personally, couldn't say. But what seems sure is that Balleydoyle's team tactics went very wrong for once and that Godolphin made the most of that through the good sense of their jockies.

Also, was A O'B.s statement that it was his fault because SYT wasn't fit enough -apart from being the usual sort of Coolmore hype for their horses - made because he didn't want to admit to team tactics and didn't want to criticise his son? Or admit the mistake in putting Joseph on rather than an experienced jock?

richard
 
I would not blame Joesph O'Brien. Coolmore are getting team tactics wrong on a regular basis.
 
Coolmore have been getting tactics wrong for years. Nothing new there.

What was the official going today? I would think that SYT wants it like the road so his electric foot can be used to its best. Staying doesn't seem to be his strongest point. Just wondering if the rain over the weekend didn't dent his chances a bit. These Aussie horses normally race on the road don't they?
 
Surprisingly not Cantoris, of his 12 wins in Australia, the ground never once had the word firm in the description. He won on soft or good to soft ground on several occasions.
 
Gamla Stan said:
Surprisingly not Cantoris, of his 12 wins in Australia, the ground never once had the word firm in the description. He won on soft or good to soft ground on several occasions.
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Having spent some time in Oz, I would have thought firm = concrete over there. The ground used to be wicked quick. Just my theory anyway.
 
Gamla Stan said:
Given your low opinion of So You Think pre-race and Planteur both pre and post race, how do you justify this statement?

I don't disagree with the statement but I find it strange, even a touch contradictory that you rate him so highly given your comments about his opposition today.
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Because Rewilding was running over a trip much too short of his best, and SYT massively got the run of the race - I put So You Think's form in context, which is still a 125 or so horse. Planteur is no more than a 119, maybe 120 horse. He has never delivered when facing a decent horse (who is fit). The race went almost exactly as I thought, Twice Over still losing his form aside.

Rewilding fresh is an absolute machine, and will be the only threat to Workforce over 1m2.
 
Planteur has ran to 124 on two occasions according to RPR's; in last year's Grand Prix De Paris and in this year's Ganay. I would say Planteur has ran to about 117 today (assuming Sri Putra ran to his best which is 118) which means Rewilding has ran to 129ish but there is no way that Sri Putra is a better horse than Planteur (he has plenty of 120+ efforts in his relatively short career) so the French colt can't have ran to form.

I would however agree that Rewilding would be in the top three middle distance colts in training (although I think he needs to be fresh to run to his optimum). I'd love to see him, Workforce and Pour Moi lineup and I'd love Reliable Man to really step up from the French Derby too to add another dimension.
 
I suspect the King George might be too soon for Rewilding if he takes as long to recover from a big effort as he did last year .

Perhaps he should wait for Frankel at York !
 
Ardross said:
I suspect the King George might be too soon for Rewilding if he takes as long to recover from a big effort as he did last year .

Perhaps he should wait for Frankel at York !
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That is almost the only race he can go for as in he will definitely be aimed at the Arc you'd imagine, so that leaves the Juddmonte as the only possible race in between bearing in mind his need to be fresh.
 
Hamm said:
Because Rewilding was running over a trip much too short of his best, and SYT massively got the run of the race - I put So You Think's form in context, which is still a 125 or so horse.
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I don't agree with SYT having the run of the race. His pacemaker was slow to lead which resulted in him not settling and he went too soon. A faster earlier pace in the Eclipse (assuming he goes there) and a later challenge will result in him being hard to beat.
 
Hamm said:
Because Rewilding was running over a trip much too short of his best, and SYT massively got the run of the race - I put So You Think's form in context, which is still a 125 or so horse.
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Absolutely no chance on this earth So You Think got the run of that race yesterday. Dettori gave Rewilding a fantastic ride.

There's every chance So You Think will turn him over in the Juddmonte in my opinion.
 
I may have phrased it wrongly - let me put it another way - So You Think had every chance, every chance, to prove he was this wonder horse. He couldn't, and has no excuses.

What makes it worse is O'Brien's reaction afterwards - why make up some rubbish about him being short, when he supposedly just did this wonder gallop a week back? He has had 2 races this season. Someone on a different thread mentioned O'Brien and class - I personally wouldn't agree with that, but he has no concept of how to lose gracefully, and he was embarassing - and a big contrast to Dettori's reaction about So You Think. His horse was fit, had a clear run and couldn't win. The distance back to the third and fourth, and Gareth's posting of TF ratings, show he ran as expected.
 
Hamm said:
Someone on a different thread mentioned O'Brien and class - I personally wouldn't agree with that, but he has no concept of how to lose gracefully, and he was embarassing - and a big contrast to Dettori's reaction about So You Think. His horse was fit, had a clear run and couldn't win. The distance back to the third and fourth, and Gareth's posting of TF ratings, show he ran as expected.
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But he did lose energy when not settling early on.

About class. I have no problem with Frankie as a good loser, but he is a poor winner imo. I don't like the pointing at himself when he has a big winner. It reminds me of footballers who score and then point at their name on the back of the shirt they're wearing.

When Sea the Stars was basically caning everything Ballydoyle through at them one of the highlights was AOB's obvious fury at having to say well done through gritted teeth over and over again.
 
If a horse can't settle, that is a weakness, and shouldn't be used as an excuse.

Did you not see Frankie's comments yesterday?
 
Hamm said:
I may have phrased it wrongly - let me put it another way - So You Think had every chance, every chance, to prove he was this wonder horse. He couldn't, and has no excuses.

What makes it worse is O'Brien's reaction afterwards - why make up some rubbish about him being short, when he supposedly just did this wonder gallop a week back? He has had 2 races this season. Someone on a different thread mentioned O'Brien and class - I personally wouldn't agree with that, but he has no concept of how to lose gracefully, and he was embarassing - and a big contrast to Dettori's reaction about So You Think. His horse was fit, had a clear run and couldn't win. The distance back to the third and fourth, and Gareth's posting of TF ratings, show he ran as expected.
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He's certainly not the monster that many thought he was, that's for sure. At the same time I must admit I would have little hesitation backing him to beat Rewilding over 10f if they met again.

Not sure about the reaction from O'Brien; he's under a savage amount of pressure and you always got the feeling that they would have an excuse if he got turned over. It's always the way with these supposed monsters. Actually similar to Cecil saying Frankel was idling the other day when anybody with a set of eyes could see he was punch drunk at the line, but you knew neither trainer nor jockey were ever going to say it.
 
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