M
Marble
Guest
This thread is too premature, and should be called 'The Sprinter Sacre Opposition Group', with the only opposition being a horse by the name of Sizing Europe.
Delivered the goods year after year, and discounted for the same major races year after year, most because a few were against him in the Champion Hurdle where he got beat, and thought he'd fail to deliver in subsequent years too. My gosh how wrong they were.
Hoping he has his best ever season this year. He has the versatility to do it and nothing to say he can't top off anything he's done previous.
Starts off tomorrow at Clonmel, and if all you Sacre fans don't tune in to watch what you and Sacre are up against I politely suggest you're getting carried away and discounting a fantastic horse in Sizing Europe.
Come on Sizing Europe!!!
Delivered the goods year after year, and discounted for the same major races year after year, most because a few were against him in the Champion Hurdle where he got beat, and thought he'd fail to deliver in subsequent years too. My gosh how wrong they were.
Hoping he has his best ever season this year. He has the versatility to do it and nothing to say he can't top off anything he's done previous.
Starts off tomorrow at Clonmel, and if all you Sacre fans don't tune in to watch what you and Sacre are up against I politely suggest you're getting carried away and discounting a fantastic horse in Sizing Europe.
Come on Sizing Europe!!!
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Euronymous
Senior Jockey
I held this thought initially but watch the race again and you see Finian's Rainbow jumping just as well throughout as SE. Barring a last fence blunder I don't see any reason why the result would have been different.
edgt
Senior Jockey
I concur. I believe we should start a campaign to have the "Latelomne" fence reinstated to its former proper position.
Cheltenham old course has not been the same since they moved it.
The whole dynamic of riding the course has changed.
The 2 mile champion chase was just that in the good old days; now with placing of 2 fences and the final hurdle there is no room for omitting a fence safely.
Had there been 3 or more horses in contention as in 2011 there could have been carnage.
A
ArkleSupreme
Guest
I have already watched it a few times before,Euronymous, and can see where you are coming from,and it would have been mighty close had the last fence been "in play" though I still feel Sizing Europe would have edged it...most frustrating end to the race really and edgt is correct in his summary also.
swedish chef
At the Start
If he beats Sanctuaire easily at Sandown then I'll be ready to believe as I think this will be his first proper test since jumping fences.
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 16,050
Sanctuaire my Granny's muff.
Raised a stone and more for beating Somersby in a back-end penny-ante snoozefest? Probably the worst handicapped horse in racing. Sprinter Sacre will laugh at him.
Raised a stone and more for beating Somersby in a back-end penny-ante snoozefest? Probably the worst handicapped horse in racing. Sprinter Sacre will laugh at him.
swedish chef
At the Start
I have no argument with the fact Sprinter Sacre is the better horse of the two but Sandown is a proper test of a jumper And has caught out many a classy horse. Sanctuaire is proven on the course and it's the course I think will be the real test for SS. I think SS may come unstuck at the railway fences but I look forward to him proving me wrong, until then I'll be taking him on at that course.
The steeplechase course has eleven testing fences. On each circuit, the runners have to negotiate one fence after the turn out of the home straight. They then meet the back straight, which is in effect, two straight sections joined by a right hand turn. The initial section contains four fences, and is followed by the three fences in the railway straight. The latter three jumps are very close together, and a potential winner must possess a good jumping rhythm. Even after the exertions of the back straight, it is still necessary to negotiate the Pond fence, which is located just before the home turn. The last two fences are situated on the uphill climb of the home straight, so the eventual winner must combine skill, pace, and stamina.
Ive heard this a lot, but I cant point to one Tingle Creek that was lost by a mistake at the railways. Moscow Flyer unseated one year there maybe. Big Zeb ran like a drain once and was beaten long before the railways. Front runners like Cenkos can get into a rhythm but I cant remember a top 2m chase where the jumping of the railways was the difference between winning and losing.
In fact, I often get surprised by the the gap between the last of the railways and the pond.
i have seen many a horse in many 2m chases there completely lose it at those fences. But granted, Big Zeb apart, i cant recall in tingle creek..then again i rarely recall much
but even so...if not occured much..doesnt make it less of a test. Its there for all to see and im sure jockeys have said they are one of the very hardest tests
The gap between those railway fences and pond isnt really the point though is it?
but even so...if not occured much..doesnt make it less of a test. Its there for all to see and im sure jockeys have said they are one of the very hardest tests
The gap between those railway fences and pond isnt really the point though is it?
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Maybe, but too often I've backed good jumpers hoping they would have be in pole position out of the railways. Even when jumping cleanly, they don't lose ground, but 99% of the time they dont gain appreciable ground. There is plenty of time to recover any lost ground from the last of the railways to the Pond. It often surprises me the distance between those two fences.
thats a good point about the bend and yes...can see that now...although recovering to win after any mistake needs ability in hand
lead doesnt change much at those fences when jumped fine because tehre is little room to do so. its the mistake or slow jump (probably more familiar) that counts
lead doesnt change much at those fences when jumped fine because tehre is little room to do so. its the mistake or slow jump (probably more familiar) that counts
Haha Sizing has the mighty Tranquil to beat tomorrow. Sure that will Sprinter shtting himself.....
M
Marble
Guest
Jeez! Someone has actually replied to one of my posts, its a surreal experience nowadays!
So kudos for that, and even more given to Sprintre Sacre if he can beat Wishful Thinking Sunday hahaha
So kudos for that, and even more given to Sprintre Sacre if he can beat Wishful Thinking Sunday hahaha
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swedish chef
At the Start
I just think Sanctuaire has the ability to make it a test for Sprinter Sacre at that particular course and although I believe Spinter Sacre to be the better horse, Sanctuaire is the highest rated novice chaser Paul Nicholls has ever had - rated 6lb higher than Azeryuiop after he won the Arkle. So if Sanctuaire is that good and runs to that level at a course he's proven on and Sprinter Sacre cruises past him it could be a sensational performance but if Sprinter Sacre were to lose a race this season I think this is where he'll be most vulnerable. Personally I find the clash mouth watering and can't wait.
For the nth time :
Who got pushed widest coming round that fence - FR
Who was clearly looking the most likely winner 2 out - FR
Who was jumping better the last 4 fences - FR
Who stayed on clearly the better up the hill - FR
You are not talking through your pocket, you're talking through your hole...
granger
Senior Jockey
Best we move on
I watched this race from the infield, from a position on the mound between the last two fences. The impression at the time was that Andrew Lynch and Sizing are the ones forced to take responsibility for getting both horses round the dolled off final fence, they seem to have spotted the problem sooner than the other pair.
Lynch on the inside sees the fence is dolled off and starts trying to edge out to get around it. He gets bumped by FR, who is still ploughing straight ahead. Lynch tries again more emphatically, he's in a critical situation. He yanks on Sizing's rein and his head goes high into the air. Sizing finally gets around the fence, but has lost momentum. He has forced Finian's to change course in order to do so, but the latter hasn't been knocked about or messed about to the same extent.
Regarding your questions, in order: 1) see above 2) which horse pulls out a length turning into the straight? 3) four out: Sizing throws a huge leap, much the better of the pair, three out: Sizing gets in close, FR skips over, two out: both jump it well, one out: dolled off 4) see above
Lynch on the inside sees the fence is dolled off and starts trying to edge out to get around it. He gets bumped by FR, who is still ploughing straight ahead. Lynch tries again more emphatically, he's in a critical situation. He yanks on Sizing's rein and his head goes high into the air. Sizing finally gets around the fence, but has lost momentum. He has forced Finian's to change course in order to do so, but the latter hasn't been knocked about or messed about to the same extent.
Regarding your questions, in order: 1) see above 2) which horse pulls out a length turning into the straight? 3) four out: Sizing throws a huge leap, much the better of the pair, three out: Sizing gets in close, FR skips over, two out: both jump it well, one out: dolled off 4) see above
M
Marble
Guest
Hamm was on Finian wasn't he? So it's hardly just Grey who can be accused of Topic Pork if it really comes to that!
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Frankly I am delighted it was moved - the old second last was a nasty trap and killed far too many horses that jumped the fence OK but were caught out on landing . Granit Jack and Citizen Vic most recently come to mind.
S
SlimChance
Guest
You make a lot of really sensible posts.
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Marble your post apart from mines of course 
is one of the most sensible posts on here.
Sizing Europe without a shadow of a doubt would have won a Champion Hurdle but for hurting his back and if Sprinter Sacre is as good as I think he's got to beat him without batting an eyelid.
Sanctuaire wouldn't blow wind up Sprinter's backside PN is dreaming if he thinks he can outpace him round Sandown. Sprinter canters faster than he can gallop.
Barry has the advantage of knowing how Sprinter Sacre compares to Sizing Europe's conquerer Finian's rainbow.
He was asked last season who would win between Sprinter Sacre and Finian's Rainbow.......Barry paused and the asked how many stones in weight does Sprinter have to give him?
This horse was so good from day 1 Nicky was too sacred to talk about him to the media before he jumped a fence in public in case they thought he was mad.
The Tingle Creek geez!!!!!!! The QMCC? foregone conclusions and nothing more than stepping stones to next year King George
As for the rest of you get in line and:adore: to the Black Aerolane before you all get me
:lol:
is one of the most sensible posts on here.Sizing Europe without a shadow of a doubt would have won a Champion Hurdle but for hurting his back and if Sprinter Sacre is as good as I think he's got to beat him without batting an eyelid.
Sanctuaire wouldn't blow wind up Sprinter's backside PN is dreaming if he thinks he can outpace him round Sandown. Sprinter canters faster than he can gallop.
Barry has the advantage of knowing how Sprinter Sacre compares to Sizing Europe's conquerer Finian's rainbow.
He was asked last season who would win between Sprinter Sacre and Finian's Rainbow.......Barry paused and the asked how many stones in weight does Sprinter have to give him?
This horse was so good from day 1 Nicky was too sacred to talk about him to the media before he jumped a fence in public in case they thought he was mad.
The Tingle Creek geez!!!!!!! The QMCC? foregone conclusions and nothing more than stepping stones to next year King George
As for the rest of you get in line and:adore: to the Black Aerolane before you all get me
:lol:
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Tanlic
Senior Jockey
To be fair I know exactly what you mean re Cue Card but you have to consider how the race was run.
Joe Tizzard rode a very sensible race that day. When Sprinter Sacre jumped past Al Ferof and pulled himself to the front Joe never panicked and chased after him immediately he just sat there conserving energy hoping that Sprinter had gone too soon. He soon realized that Sprinter was showing no signs of stopping and then asked Cue Card for his effort. Barry in the meantime is not getting after Sprinter Sacre knowing the only thing that might stop him winning is the hill.
So you have one horse flat to the boards and another one holding a bit in reserve which allows Cue Card to get within striking distance.
But when Barry does ask him to quicken after the last he actually starts drawing away from Cue Card again.
If Barry had said stuff it and asked Sprinter to go into top gear coming down the hill I doubt if Cue Card would have gotten within 10 lengths of him.
It's not just adulation form the media and punters Sprinter is getting. Like Arkle back in the old days trainers are avoiding him like the plague.
Cue Card,Al Ferof, Menorah and even his Stable companion Finian's Rainbow are all being stepped up in trip and their trainers think it's a complete waste of time trying to beat this fellow.
When did a 2 mile champion chaser ever not go back for a second go when he could have. I reckon you have to go back to Flyingbolt if you dismiss One Man who was actually going the other way.
No matter what the betting may indicate the only way Nicky Henderson will run Finian's Rainbow against him is if Finians fails to stay longer trips which must be doubtful after Aintree. He'd rather be winning the likes of the Ryanair again that finishing 2nd to Sprinter Sacre and his owner was adamant he'll never run at 2 miles gain as long as Sprinter has 4 legs and a a tail.
You may not think he deserves all the adulation but he's getting it and more because many people see in him what they saw in Arkle almost 50 years ago.
Maybe he'll never reach the heights people expect of him but we can but dream because to real racing fans it's horses like him and the anticipation that makes National Hunt racing the most exciting sport on the planet.