The 2000 Guineas (and beyond)

Hearts of Fire was a very good 2 year old shame that makfi flopped but CC won with plenty in hand .

Dick Turpin is the most gorgeous looking horse . I hope he wins a G 1 soon
 
He was definitely the best horse but all in all I think the 3 year olds are an average bunch of milers - they will certainly not be troubling the older horses. Steinbeck looks like a donkey! - not sure what they see every morning. Makfi very disappointing. Did Fortune snatch up a little on hearts of fire? Poor ride by Lemaire on Siyouni - should have been placed.
 
I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to downgrade the race because of the proximity of the unlucky Hearts of Fire. The yard are flying at the minute and his Italian form where he was pair clear with a Breeders' Cup winner marks him down as a high 110 horse.
 
I have to say I really like Canford Cliffs and was glad he got through to win but when the camera switched to that sycophant Paul Roy it was awful!
 
I was impressed by Canford Cliffs. God he travels well. Hearts of Fire might have been second. Dick turpin must feel like the O'Brien three year olds from last year. Will he ever win his group 1 this year!!
 
I can see Canford troubling the older milers; he's got something more in hand. How much is anyone's guess.
 
Thought the ride on Makfi was awful although not sure it would have made any difference to the result. The Coolmore horses really are struggling at the moment.
 
I'm not sure I'd be dishing out quite so many plaudits as some on here for Dick Turpin. That's 3 Group 1's where he's had a perfect run throughout. I think his merit is established and think he'll need placing well to win a Group 1. Wouldn't be surprised if the third and fourth reverse form should they meet again.

I thought Lemaire was a bit unfortunate. If I'd backed the horse, I'd rather he went the route he did, getting a clear run down the outside rather than switched to the winner. He was unlucky that the American hung into the middle of the track which took him away from the rest of the field. Certainly could upgrade him a couple of pounds or so.
 
I agree to a point DJ - I think he is definitely better (I think he'll prove to be the second best in the race myself) but blame Lemaire for taking too long to get serious with the horse from where he was - maybe he is inexperienced at Ascot, but you can't be in the position he was and expect to win. Saying that, it made no difference to my pocket and he wouldn't have troubled the winner.

About Dick Turpin - the Prix Jean Prat? Or they could drop him back to 7 at Goodwood if they wanted to go that route.
 
I don't see your logic there EC. Presumably Dick Turpin isn't a 'fair marker'? Because if he is, then that would make today's performance by Canford pretty much the equal of Makfi's at Newmarket. So how does today prove that the Irish Guineas was the better race, given that Canford had to work harder to win today then he did at the Curragh?
 
Gareth Flynn said:
I don't see your logic there EC. Presumably Dick Turpin isn't a 'fair marker'? Because if he is, then that would make today's performance by Canford pretty much the equal of Makfi's at Newmarket. So how does today prove that the Irish Guineas was the better race, given that Canford had to work harder to win today then he did at the Curragh?
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i've always used Xtension as the marker for both races..and still think thats the case tbh

i think DT is a good marker..but in the guineas and today he has had a good trip compared to CC..who pulled in the guineas and didn't get an easy run through to day..i think if DT had run in Ireland CC would have beaten him by further than today..in Ireland CC got a real clear run.

CC wasn't greatly positioned when they turned into the straight today-the speed he has shown to run through them was incredible i thought.
 
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EC1 said:
i think if DT had run in Ireland CC would have beaten him by further than today..in Ireland CC got a real clear run.
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But in Ireland CC went crusing past Group 2 animals. If DT had been in the race he'd have been clear of those also and in all probability wouldn't have gone down by more than a length.
 
Hamm said:
He was definitely the best horse but all in all I think the 3 year olds are an average bunch of milers - they will certainly not be troubling the older horses. Steinbeck looks like a donkey! - not sure what they see every morning. Makfi very disappointing. Did Fortune snatch up a little on hearts of fire? Poor ride by Lemaire on Siyouni - should have been placed.
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I too thought it was a poor ride by Lemaire (talking through my pocket of course!) but he was going as easy as the winner and I was just waiting for him to make a move - only he didn't and when he did by going wide, he got slightly hung into. I am not sure that made the difference but I do wonder if the ground being faster up the far rails they are banging on about, did?
 
Euronymous said:
But in Ireland CC went crusing past Group 2 animals. If DT had been in the race he'd have been clear of those also and in all probability wouldn't have gone down by more than a length.
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its open to question Euro imo..do you think CC was well positioned today when they hit the straight?..do you think CC ran anywhere near his best in our Guineas?

to me its about good and bad trips..DT always gets a good trip due to his style..whereas we have CC running from positions ..where apart from the Irish guineas ..he is alwys playing catch up with horses to negotiate.

its not clear cut to me..Extension showed what CC is capable of when getting a clear run..if you put DT in the Irish race in the same position relative to Xtension..he would have been well behind CC there

I really rate that guineas on time and form..more so than our guineas..it was a truer race..imo
 
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You must really rate Free Judgement, I had you 1.01 to throw the full £1000 on him in the comp tomorrow!
 
It was mighty impressive for a horse that lost a shoe and was stopped and then picked up again . Canford Cliffs is the real deal .

Makfi has an inflamed throat apparently but he would have needed to have improved on his Guineas win to cope with CC.
 
I'll almost certainly rate the race via DT, meaning CC hasn't really improved at all since Ireland.

OK, he got a slightly interrupted run but the one I'd take for the future is the Eddery horse. He'd have gone very close. For all they're banging on about CC's turn of foot, HOF cruised as readily, quickened as easily but then ran into trouble. He'd have pushed CC all the way, I reckon, then we'd be doubting the form.

Lemaire got it badly wrong here. I was quite happy with where he was approaching the bend but my heart sank when he moved wide. Wrong move. The ground was slower out there so it was a waste of time going there.
 
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Ardross said:
It was mighty impressive for a horse that lost a shoe and was stopped and then picked up again . Canford Cliffs is the real deal .

Makfi has an inflamed throat apparently but he would have needed to have improved on his Guineas win to cope with CC.
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I think the form is very poor

my reading of the race is Makfi had an off day and Canford cliffs is a 122 horse if not lower,


Edderys horse was unlucky and dick turpin is now exposed.

Lope de Vega is the 3yo miler to follow and none of the 3yo we have seen this year have nothing to do with the older horses.
 
Hearts of Fire and Canford Cliffs were going for the same gap - CC had the pace to get through it - H of F didn't.

I am surprised that the loss of a shoe is being ignored. The horse showed a very sharp turn of foot notwithstanding.

L de V did not beat DT anywhere near as easily in the Poulains - although he put up a breathtaking performance in the Jockey Club .
 
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