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The Derby & Irish Derby 2009

Chroniclandlord wrote:

Hopefully Rip van Winkle will go to Chantily and the other six will all go to Epsom. Why would they risk a possible non stayer in the Derby when they have such a strong hand of colts who will all almost certainly relish the trip, and there is an alternative group one race almost two furlongs shorter on across the channel.
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Sounds good to me too, but will Coolmore see it that way? Mind you, Silver Frost looks a formidable presence in the Jockey Club.
 
I know I know the rule "if you dont win the Dante you dont win the Derby" but given the level of improvement shown by Ballydoyle runners after their first outing, it is somewhat surprising that Freemantle can be backed at double the price of BBI particularly given the way the race was run.

Looked like they wanted to get a serious run into Freemantle while BBI benefitted fully from sitting off the pace. Weither either of them are up to taking on Sea The Stars or Fame And Glory is another matter.
 
Galileo said:
I know I know the rule "if you dont win the Dante you dont win the Derby" but given the level of improvement shown by Ballydoyle runners after their first outing, it is somewhat surprising that Freemantle can be backed at double the price of BBI particularly given the way the race was run.

Looked like they wanted to get a serious run into Freemantle while BBI benefitted fully from sitting off the pace. Weither either of them are up to taking on Sea The Stars or Fame And Glory is another matter.
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I was quite taken with Freemantle. I think I like the look of BBI a bit more though.

The third SF stayed on very nicely (perhaps best of all) too.
 
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It looked to me like O'Donoghue was 'doing a Murtagh' there - but managed it successfully rather than fouling up!!
 
Disappointed that Crowded House couldn't do better. Alot may be made that they finished in a bunch and therefore might not be upto much, but also it was thought by many people that this was a really good Dante, so it could possibly be that they are all really good horses. However at the moment ( thats at the moment) I would favour Sea The Stars for the Derby. I think he won despite the ground at Newmarket, seemed to be feeling it to my eyes and won anyway. I dont like the Bolger horse Gan Amhras, he's not a nice horse, and can't see Rip Van Winkle staying a mile and a half in a race like this.
 
Let's see if they give him more respect next time

Shadow Leader said:
It looked to me like O'Donoghue was 'doing a Murtagh' there - but managed it successfully rather than fouling up!!
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Well if he got the pick,then Murtagh just pick the wrong horse, Was Duke OM. fav in the first run? lightning does trike twice.
 
Murtagh an odds on shot to pick the wrong one at Epsom. Are there enough jockeys to ride all the Ballydoyle lot?!
 
does anyone remember the year when Swinburn picked the "wrong one" of Stoutey's in what now seems loads of big races? ..might have been just after Shergars year
 
They managed well enough in Authorized`s Derby. Fame and Glory apart I get the feeling the rest of them are gonna end up as memorable as Mahler and Admiralofthefleet as well.
 
I thought there was a lot to like about Black Bear Island; he was dropped out last for much of the race, met trouble in running yet still could be called the winner as far as 2f out.
 
I agree, and given his breeding he will stay very well, so the turn of foot he displayed off a strong pace is encouraging for his chances. He won't mind if it comes up GS either, if he is a typical Sadlers Wells (which he looks in my eyes, not that I;ve seen him in the flesh). If FAG is a better horse he must be a very good one!
 
Was it a turn of foot? For me he was just staying on better than the pace horses who had gone a tad too quick. Because of the history of the Dante he will be overbet for the Derby. He shouldn`t be shorter than Bolger`s charge.
 
Pretty sure it was a turn of foot and not just a good staying performance that got BBI to the front. Looked to me to have a better turn of foot than his illustrious brother. If he has the engine he'll give F&G a race. Freemantle ridden differently could be the value.
 
Crowded House scoped badly after the race.

I gather scoping isn't a particularly comfortable experience for a horse, and that continual scoping may have an adverse effect on them, but if you had a presumptive Derby favourite, would you not give him a quick scope before his one and only race prior to the big day? Just to make sure all is well?
 
Gareth Flynn said:
Crowded House scoped badly after the race.

I gather scoping isn't a particularly comfortable experience for a horse, and that continual scoping may have an adverse effect on them, but if you had a presumptive Derby favourite, would you not give him a quick scope before his one and only race prior to the big day? Just to make sure all is well?
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You would not normally scope a horse before a race. In addition to being a quite unpleasant experience (as you say) it would also serve no purpose as any mucus and burst blood from the lungs - which occurs to some extent most of the time - only fully shows up after the horse has been tested to its limits (i.e. in a race).
 
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Yet we sometimes hear of horses being pulled from a race because they've scoped dirty? I think Meehan's Delegator missed a run before the Dewhurst last year in such circumstances.
 
Gareth Flynn said:
Yet we sometimes hear of horses being pulled from a race because they've scoped dirty? I think Meehan's Delegator missed a run before the Dewhurst last year in such circumstances.
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This wouldn't be on the day of the race though. They are scoped after routine work at home on occasion, but only if they suspect there is something amiss in the first place.

Crowded House's work reports had been upbeat, so they would have had no reason to arrange for the horse to be scoped.
 
If he scoped badley after the race then you would think that there's now some value there, But Black Bear Island looked like he still had a bit in hand.
 
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