Or maybe we've got carried away with the Racing Post Trophy. Despite looking impressive in that he hung quite badly after hitting the front. Still I'm sure he's better than we saw in the Dante, despite that race looking competitive (i.e. at his best CH may not have won).
The Derby & Irish Derby 2009
- Thread starter Guest_
- Start date
That's right. I think Meehan has stated that if he misses any work at all he won't be going, but he also added that they still hoped to. Like you say any course of medication that holds up his work would mean curtains as far as the Derby is concerned.
On the other hand "scoping dirty" is one of those stock expressions that is used to mean anything from nothing at all, to a bit of mucus, to bursting from the lungs with a windpipe full of blood. So who knows.
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Shadow Leader
At the Start
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- Nov 9, 2003
- Messages
- 9,884
Plenty of horses are scoped the day before a race, as well as blood tested. Some trainers do it as a matter of routine - how many times have you seen a trainer quoted as saying "if he scopes alright he'll run" ?
Personally I wouldn't scope as routine anyway, I don't like the procedure and I firmly believe that scoping them regularly weakens their airways in some way.
Personally I wouldn't scope as routine anyway, I don't like the procedure and I firmly believe that scoping them regularly weakens their airways in some way.
A horse wouldn't be scoped on the day of the race (i.e. before racing), but possibly a day or two before after it had worked. There is no point in scoping a horse that hasn't been exercised. They may well be blood tested although time is often needed for analysis unless a very simple test.
Interestingly Meehan mentioned that CH was scoped about four days before and showed a level 2 indication. He said if it had been level 3 the colt wouldn't have run. Note: scoping is measured in fifths so a level 2 would equate to between 20% and 40% of the windpipe being filled with gunk (mucus/blood). Pity he didn't mention this before the race. The reports from the yard appeared to be quite bullish.
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trackside528
At the Start
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- Apr 30, 2006
- Messages
- 5,377
Anybody else notice that Gan Amhras is out of a mare called All's Forgotten, herself out of Forget About It?
Named by the English racing hacks, perhaps? :lol:
Named by the English racing hacks, perhaps? :lol:
Is it possible that there will be a single figure Derby field?
Sea the Stars
Fame and Glory
Gan Amhras
Freemantle
Black Bear Island
Kite Wood
Age of Acquarius
Masterofthehorse
South Easter?
Free Agent? (depending on tomorrow, vibes don't sound too positive)
I don't see the point in AOB running Rip Van Winkle, as I think all his other horses need a strongly run 1m4, and this would be the opposite of what RVW would need to do well over this distance, allied with the fact others mentioned have showed more potential to succeed in the Derby.
Age of Acquarius to make the running?
I think Freemantle will come on a lot for his Dante run, and will be the best of the AOB runners.
Sea the Stars
Fame and Glory
Gan Amhras
Freemantle
Black Bear Island
Kite Wood
Age of Acquarius
Masterofthehorse
South Easter?
Free Agent? (depending on tomorrow, vibes don't sound too positive)
I don't see the point in AOB running Rip Van Winkle, as I think all his other horses need a strongly run 1m4, and this would be the opposite of what RVW would need to do well over this distance, allied with the fact others mentioned have showed more potential to succeed in the Derby.
Age of Acquarius to make the running?
I think Freemantle will come on a lot for his Dante run, and will be the best of the AOB runners.
Colin Phillips
At the Start
........I don't!
Is it a given Murtagh rides Fame & Glory?
I think FAG will end up around the 4/1 mark. Impressive as he was in the Derrinstown, he has only beaten the same horses twice, and those two looked to be struggling too far out to be top class in both races. In the first they said Mourayan got shuffled back, but i think the second race showed he just doesn't have the pace of a top class horse on decent ground, and i think the Beresford slowed Sea the stars up quite a bit, and shouldn't be taken at face value when assessing Fame and Glory's chances.
Black bear island ran very well in the Dante, only slight worry is did he show too much speed, and with the benefit of a previous run, i'm hoping Freemantle will turn that form around by 4/5 lengths.
I think FAG will end up around the 4/1 mark. Impressive as he was in the Derrinstown, he has only beaten the same horses twice, and those two looked to be struggling too far out to be top class in both races. In the first they said Mourayan got shuffled back, but i think the second race showed he just doesn't have the pace of a top class horse on decent ground, and i think the Beresford slowed Sea the stars up quite a bit, and shouldn't be taken at face value when assessing Fame and Glory's chances.
Black bear island ran very well in the Dante, only slight worry is did he show too much speed, and with the benefit of a previous run, i'm hoping Freemantle will turn that form around by 4/5 lengths.
I think Freemantle will be ridden different in the Derby, with Golden Sword being the main front runner....think that will make as much difference to Freemantle as will him improved fitness. Black Bear Island will get the Derby trip standing on his head.
Still think Fame And Glory is very much their number 1 though. Mourayan's good form is not just reliant on his form with Sea The Stars.
I like this colt (Gal probably likes him even more), but part of his biggish price could well be to do with him not turning up at Epsom.
I'm expecting the Ballydoyle squad for Epsom to be Fame And Glory, Black Bear Island and Rip Van Winkle (I'm fairly confident he'll run at Epsom).
Freemantle could be just the type to tee up for the Irish equivalent along with the likes of Age Of Aquarius and one or two others.
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I dont see why the likes of Freemantle and Age Of Aquarius would not run in both.
I'm not saying they couldn't. They could run a dozen if they chose to. But just looking at the colts and seeing how they have run I think they'll be divided into two squads, perhaps with a little overlap.
Freemantle looks likely to be ideal on a galloping track. Not sure Epsom would suit him too well.
I'm surprised you say that. Seems all indications are favouring the other two. The first on stamina the second on class.
I'd probably oppose you on that... you're entitled to your opinion and Freemantle's certainly entitled to line up in the Derby, but I think (and I think connections may well think the same) that he's better off in the Irish Derby.
Be aware that they still think a hell of a lot about Rip (and I think they are probably right to do so) - he'll come on the most of anything from Newmarket.
The market also suggests that Freemantle is the least likely of these to run. BBI, RVW and Freemantle were all about 10s for the Derby after the Dante. Ladbrokes now go 20s Freemantle and 10s the other two.
I doubt they'd run six, but I suppose it's possible. If they didn't run six I'd reckon Freemantle would be one of the least likely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Flynn
Thanks for that Steve - pretty much answers my original question!
It’s difficult to know what to believe about it Gareth. Meehan states on his website:
CROWDED HOUSE POST-RACE REPORT
Crowded House has been scoped after his run in the Dante Stakes at York today and scored 2 for mucus. Brian Meehan said that, in his opinion, this was a stopper. The colt was scoped after his final piece of work on Monday and scoped clean.
Brain Meehan said :"Plans for the Epsom Derby are on hold until we have received veterinary advice in the next 48 hours."
On C4 he said immediately after the race that the horse had been scoped about four days before the race and was a level 2 and that if he had been a level 3 he wouldn’t have run him.
On his website now he seems to be saying after the event that level 2 would have been enough to stop him.
Seems conflicting.
Anyhow apparently he’s clear again now - apparently they scoped him after working him (like I say there is no point otherwise). However, scoping is likely to show up more after an actual race than work (depending on how easy the work was).
Originally Posted by Gareth Flynn
Thanks for that Steve - pretty much answers my original question!
It’s difficult to know what to believe about it Gareth. Meehan states on his website:
CROWDED HOUSE POST-RACE REPORT
Crowded House has been scoped after his run in the Dante Stakes at York today and scored 2 for mucus. Brian Meehan said that, in his opinion, this was a stopper. The colt was scoped after his final piece of work on Monday and scoped clean.
Brain Meehan said :"Plans for the Epsom Derby are on hold until we have received veterinary advice in the next 48 hours."
On C4 he said immediately after the race that the horse had been scoped about four days before the race and was a level 2 and that if he had been a level 3 he wouldn’t have run him.
On his website now he seems to be saying after the event that level 2 would have been enough to stop him.
Seems conflicting.
Anyhow apparently he’s clear again now - apparently they scoped him after working him (like I say there is no point otherwise). However, scoping is likely to show up more after an actual race than work (depending on how easy the work was).
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