The Derby & Irish Derby 2009

Declartions:

Byzantine
Drumbeat
Fame And Glory
Gan Amhras
Golden Sword
Hail Caesar
Loch Long
Masterothehorse
Mourayan
Recharge
Rockhampton
Sea The Stars
The Bull Hayes
 
Because the probability will be that half his book, for at least the first few years, will be taken up with family mares who he shouldn't be wasted on.

But family mares provide a much more stable upbringing than those that go clubbing and don’t get in until the small hours.:)
 
Clerk of the course now looking quite silly. Never a need to water so far in advance.

The more I think about it, his competence should really be questioned. Ireland's best horse likely to turn up and be a massive draw, who is the first Irish Guineas/Derby winner since Nijinksy, and for some unknown reason he watered much too far in advance, with the possibility of showers in the coming days. If I had a ticket for Sunday, I'd be quite annoyed with the clerk of the course.

Was it the same clerk that produced the road for last year's Irish 2000 Guineas?
 
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The more I think about it, his competence should really be questioned. Ireland's best horse likely to turn up and be a massive draw, who is the first Irish Guineas/Derby winner since Nijinksy, and for some unknown reason he watered much too far in advance, with the possibility of showers in the coming days. If I had a ticket for Sunday, I'd be quite annoyed with the clerk of the course.

Was it the same clerk that produced the road for last year's Irish 2000 Guineas?

So did you want him to risk producing ground on the easy side of good (or possibly faster or firm ground?
 
I don't understand your point but surely you can see he has made a big error here. Ground was good to firm (according to Clerk, not so according to Oxx); possibility of showers + no need to water 5 days in advance means there is no reason whatsoever to water; what was stopping him waiting until say, today, or even tomorrow (with respect to Sunday) and water then?
 
I don't understand your point but surely you can see he has made a big error here. Ground was good to firm (according to Clerk, not so according to Oxx); possibility of showers + no need to water 5 days in advance means there is no reason whatsoever to water; what was stopping him waiting until say, today, or even tomorrow (with respect to Sunday) and water then?

Preferable not to water the day before or night before a meeting? If they had not watered all week, they would probably still need to water despite the rain today.
 
I would have imagine Friday morning optimum?

I don't think they would still need to water after these showers if the word yielding is currently appearing in the going description.
 
I would have imagine Friday morning optimum?

If they left it to Friday and no rain arrived they would have to have put on considerable amount of water on to firm ground and then race on it this evening.

Anyway, lets wait and see what the ground is by Sunday.

Interesting though that they have declared Sea The Stars...considering the trainer was not going to run the horse on the ground earlier in the week yet is open to the possibility of doing so after 12mls of rain on watered ground? They want to run him alright.
 
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One detects that Oxx still hasn't really settled the issue of trip in his own mind, and must know that the Ballydoyle batallions are serving up a different type of race on a stiffer track for him this time. If Sea The Stars really is that good than it won't matter what tactics O'Brien uses (within the rules) but the naturally cautious Oxx doesn't seem convinced yet.

With the American market in particular looking at (and paying for) 10F horses I just feel the temptation to draw stumps whilst he's ahead, and re-route to Sandown for another Gp1 over a third distance where a horse he's beaten twice this term already, heads the market, will prove too much, and is probably the sensible rather than sentimental call. My guess is that Oxx is more likely to be ruled by his head than his heart, and if it were me I'd duck the issue and go to Sandown
 
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One detects that Oxx still hasn't really settled the issue of trip in his own mind, and must know that the Ballydoyle batallions are serving up a different type of race on a stiffer track for him this time. If Sea The Stars really is that good than it won't matter what tactics O'Brien uses (with the rules) but the naturally cautious Oxx doesn't seem convinced yet.

With the American market in particular looking at (and paying) for 10F horses I just feel the temptation to draw stumps whilst he's ahead, and re-route to Sandown for another Gp1 over a third distance where a horse he's beaten twiced this term already, heads the market, will prove too much, and is probably the sensible rather than sentimental call. My guess is that Oxx is more liekly to be ruled by his head than his heart, and if it were me I'd duck the issue and go to Sandown

This seems to me exactly the case and virtually what Oxx has already admitted himself. I'm sure he does feel he has the best horse, but he also appears to think that the downside of losing outweighs the upside of winning in this particular race. He has stated that STS would likely be better off at 10 furlongs and unless he gets his perfect conditions on Sunday it is very likely he will revert to just this trip.
 
I had my biggest-ever win single stake on Montjeu at 5/2 against to win this when he was second favourite to Stoute’s Beat All. I’d be tempting fate to plunge on Fame in similar circumstances, but I’m happy enough with my existing position.
 
Would they lay you it? or would they call it related contingency?

16/1 about a 50/50 chance of routes taken, in the knowledge that both prices would collapse if you're right isn't bad
 
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Would they lay you it? or would they call it related contingency?

Not sure... I think the related contingency may be on the same horse in two races, rather than different horses, but they tightened this rule up a few years back, so you may well be right. The 4s have long since gone on Fame anyway.

Ladbrokes once laid me West Tip Gold Cup/GN double at odds you would not believe. Although the bet failed they would not lay that these days.
 
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