The Road to the 2012 King George
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Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Sir Ivor probably won him more money in bets.
Won Old Roan 2m4f by 21 lengths off 167
Won 3m Betfair Chase by 17 lengths
Won 2m Tingle Creek by 7 lengths
Won 3m King George by 8 lengths
Won 3m AON by 1/2 length
Won 3m2f Gold Cup by 2 1/2 lengths
If Sprinter Sacre can put together a season like that this year I'll be impressed.
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ArkleSupreme
Guest
Aragorn....Kauto Star did not achieve all those results aged 6 !
Are you suggesting he was better at that age than Sprinter Sacre was ?
Euronymous...pray tell.....how on earth can Kauto Star be rated above Denman ??
Denman beat him fair and square in their first Gold Cup meeting and beat him twice more even after he had returned from his debilitating heart problems !
He was the better horse....no question !
Are you suggesting he was better at that age than Sprinter Sacre was ?
Euronymous...pray tell.....how on earth can Kauto Star be rated above Denman ??
Denman beat him fair and square in their first Gold Cup meeting and beat him twice more even after he had returned from his debilitating heart problems !
He was the better horse....no question !
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ArkleSupreme
Guest
OK..Who are your fancies, Hamm ?
I still feel the bookmakers have it right and that Grands Crus is the one with Long Run a major player if he returns to his form of 2 seasons ago.
I still feel the bookmakers have it right and that Grands Crus is the one with Long Run a major player if he returns to his form of 2 seasons ago.
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ArkleSupreme
Guest
The ground will be key,too...however you mustn't forget Grands Crus clocked a much faster time than Kauto Star did over same course and distance last year !
Grasshopper
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granger
Senior Jockey
Always thought Finians would be better over further, so no worries over KG trip. Is he running somewhere before then?
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ArkleSupreme
Guest
Grasshopper ...no need for rude language....I have stated facts...you have stated nonsense !!
Denman beat Kauto Star 3 times out of 4 meetings and was nowhere near the same horse as he had been previously when finishing second in the 2009 Gold Cup.....FACT !
Denman beat Kauto Star 3 times out of 4 meetings and was nowhere near the same horse as he had been previously when finishing second in the 2009 Gold Cup.....FACT !
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He was six rising seven... Same as SS is now.
Let's get back on topic now as this is already boring...
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ArkleSupreme
Guest
Indeed,Aragorn but whereas Kauto Star fell in the Champion 2 mile Chase aged 6,Sprinter Sacre was busy cruising around the same course and distance winning the Arkle Chase,and most agree he would have won the Champion 2 mile Chase had he gone for it !
I really hope he does emerge as a King George horse too....the World is his oyster now...and he already has the nickname "Black Aeroplane" !
I really hope he does emerge as a King George horse too....the World is his oyster now...and he already has the nickname "Black Aeroplane" !
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Amlin I seem to remember reading.
I think the Feltham time relative to the King George is a bit of a red herring. Teaforthree and Mr Moonshine set the race up for an excellent time.
EC1
On a break
correct..the KG wasn't a strong test which is also backed up by Our Micks time which in poundage terms was just 20lbs inferior to the KG..which would make Our Mick a 150 odd horse [which he isn't] if the KG was a truly representative time ..which it can't have been
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
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I'm that unique blend of being a foul-mouthed c*nt, and an absolute slaver to boot. Stick around long enough, and you will eventually become as inured to my ways.
PS. You have stated opinion, not fact....opinion which, I might add, is based on a crude and rudimentary For/Against dynamic. Be careful lest you be swept into the pile with the rest of the fish-wives.
Most would probably agree Kauto would have won that CC had he stood up but it's purely opinion.
What Kauto did is fact. Sprinter Sacre is a very very good horse but he still has it to prove at Grade 1 level in open company. I've no doubt he will but I'd be surprised if he could ever win a gold cup. Let alone reclaim it and win five king George's as well.
BennyB
Senior Jockey
Sprinter Sacre is exceptionally promising - nothing more. He has about two stone to improve to mix it with KS at his best. I am not saying he won't, but one has the form in the book and the other has an Arkle win and a fancy nickname.
As for the KS vs Denman and KS vs Arkle debates, I think we have done these to death. Yawn...
As for the KS vs Denman and KS vs Arkle debates, I think we have done these to death. Yawn...
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ArkleSupreme
Guest
Grasshopper.....thanks for the heads up....always best to lay all your cards on the table !
Aragorn....the fences are there to be jumped and Kauto Star fell too many times and clouted too many compared to Sprinter Sacre, who sails over them like the "Black Aeroplane" he is.
BennyB....I was not a member of this forum if such debate took place previously...assumedly,everyone agreed that Denman had proven to be the better horse when they met ?
There has never been and never will be any KS v Arkle debate !
Arkle remains on a different planet and the proof of the pudding is the Arkle Chase held at Cheltenham each year to celebrate his immortality and 4 wins from 4 Festivals.
The clearly inferior Kauto Star mustered just 2 wins from 7 Festivals and may have a bar named in his honour for regaining a Gold Cup win,but that is as far as it will go.
Aragorn....the fences are there to be jumped and Kauto Star fell too many times and clouted too many compared to Sprinter Sacre, who sails over them like the "Black Aeroplane" he is.
BennyB....I was not a member of this forum if such debate took place previously...assumedly,everyone agreed that Denman had proven to be the better horse when they met ?
There has never been and never will be any KS v Arkle debate !
Arkle remains on a different planet and the proof of the pudding is the Arkle Chase held at Cheltenham each year to celebrate his immortality and 4 wins from 4 Festivals.
The clearly inferior Kauto Star mustered just 2 wins from 7 Festivals and may have a bar named in his honour for regaining a Gold Cup win,but that is as far as it will go.
Grasshopper
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Good on you, AS.
Grasshopper
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I had a look at the King George market this evening, and one thing struck me. Hardly any of the first twenty-or-so horses in the betting are proven at 3m in a top-end chase.
Sure, there are plenty proven at around two-and-a-half, and there are several who seem likely to benefit from being stepped-up to this trip. But there are very few who we can authoratively say have no stamina question-marks.
Top-class 2m4f horses are often touted for the King George; principally on the premis that Kempton is an 'easy' 3 miles. But does this theory hold much water?
In the last twenty years, only Edredon Bleu, Florida Pearl and One Man have emerged as winners you would describe as anything other than thorough stayers. Almost every other winner in that period had won a race (usually either a Hennessy or Gold Cup) over 3m2f.
I'm of the view that the King George is a sterner test than is usually accepted, and to that end, have had a dash on a horse with proven class and guaranteed stamina; namely Bobsworth.
It will probably need him to win the Hennessy before Kempton will come under consideration, but at odds up to 140 on Betfair, I'm prepared to test the theory.
Can lightening strike twice
Sure, there are plenty proven at around two-and-a-half, and there are several who seem likely to benefit from being stepped-up to this trip. But there are very few who we can authoratively say have no stamina question-marks.
Top-class 2m4f horses are often touted for the King George; principally on the premis that Kempton is an 'easy' 3 miles. But does this theory hold much water?
In the last twenty years, only Edredon Bleu, Florida Pearl and One Man have emerged as winners you would describe as anything other than thorough stayers. Almost every other winner in that period had won a race (usually either a Hennessy or Gold Cup) over 3m2f.
I'm of the view that the King George is a sterner test than is usually accepted, and to that end, have had a dash on a horse with proven class and guaranteed stamina; namely Bobsworth.
It will probably need him to win the Hennessy before Kempton will come under consideration, but at odds up to 140 on Betfair, I'm prepared to test the theory.
Can lightening strike twice
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Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Don't think Kicking King was proven over three miles.
Can't see BW running and don't think he'll have the class anyway.
Can't see BW running and don't think he'll have the class anyway.
Grasshopper
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The point I made was that all the others were ultimately proven to be thorough stayers. Maybe that will be the case for several of these - but then I'm not really disputing that.
Whether it's currently a target or not is factored into the price. I also think it's entirely premature to be dismissing the horse on class grounds, in what is - any way I look at it - as wide-open a King George as we've seen for many a year.
Whether it's currently a target or not is factored into the price. I also think it's entirely premature to be dismissing the horse on class grounds, in what is - any way I look at it - as wide-open a King George as we've seen for many a year.
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Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Fair enough. Just don't really rate the horse that much and surely a couple of Henderson's other animals would have to miss the race for it even to be considered. Obviously the price is massive but I just can't see it.