granger
Senior Jockey
Don't see Kempton or even late Dec being the time where BW will be seen at his best
Would also presume Geraghty won't be getting off FR in any case
Would also presume Geraghty won't be getting off FR in any case
The Road to the 2012 King George
- Thread starter Bar the Bull
- Start date
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 16,050
Maybe so.
There's no denying the best of his form is at Cheltenham, but given he's won twice at Kempton (bumper and novice hurdle), I don't see why there would be any track concerns.
As for Geraghty, I don't think it would becessarily be a clear cut selection of Finian's Rainbow, were Bobsworth to win the Hennessy and the KG declared as a target.
There's no denying the best of his form is at Cheltenham, but given he's won twice at Kempton (bumper and novice hurdle), I don't see why there would be any track concerns.
As for Geraghty, I don't think it would becessarily be a clear cut selection of Finian's Rainbow, were Bobsworth to win the Hennessy and the KG declared as a target.
I had a look at the King George market this evening, and one thing struck me. Hardly any of the first twenty-or-so horses in the betting are proven at 3m in a top-end chase.
Sure, there are plenty proven at around two-and-a-half, and there are several who seem likely to benefit from being stepped-up to this trip. But there are very few who we can authoratively say have no stamina question-marks.
Top-class 2m4f horses are often touted for the King George; principally on the premis that Kempton is an 'easy' 3 miles. But does this theory hold much water?
In the last twenty years, only Edredon Bleu, Florida Pearl and One Man have emerged as winners you would describe as anything other than thorough stayers. Almost every other winner in that period had won a race (usually either a Hennessy or Gold Cup) over 3m2f.
I'm of the view that the King George is a sterner test than is usually accepted, and to that end, have had a dash on a horse with proven class and guaranteed stamina; namely Bobsworth.
It will probably need him to win the Hennessy before Kempton will come under consideration, but at odds up to 140 on Betfair, I'm prepared to test the theory.
Can lightening strike twice
Forgive me Grass, but that's an arse-about-face way of looking at things, imo.
Kempton is a speedtrack, and while the KG is usually run at a pace which will find out the non-stayers, the class to accelerate will always be more important than an abundance of stamina.
It's no coincidence that the race has been farmed by turn-of-foot horses such as Dessie and Kauto, and dour stayers are very thin on the ground in the pantheon of past winners. See More Business might just qualify amongst the past 15 winners or so, but even he needed the assistance of soft ground, and a horse with the class of Best Mate was turned over the first time he tried it, having to be ridden far more forcefully to prevail the next (again, with soft ground assistance).
Bobsworth just wouldn't have the speed, imo, and unless it's a bog, a most unlikely runner.
trudij
Senior Jockey
That will depend how well he wins on Saturday...
granger
Senior Jockey
Take bumper form at your peril and he was nearly 1/3 when winning that nov hurdle
Is he classy enough to win both the Hennessy and KG - I'd be very surprised but he is a fair price for the KG in fairness
I take your point on board re Geraghty seeing as he bought the horse himself
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Tanlic
Senior Jockey
Not a chance in hell Bobsworth will run in the King George he'd be so far behind by halfway you'd need binoculars to find him. Not his type of race at all the last thing he needs is to be mixing it with a bunch of speedsters but the Gold Cup? that's totally different matter.
Both Long Run and Finian's Rainbow look sure to go and I suppose Riverside will have an other go but he's not going to be running the entire yard there.
I have a confession to make: When I commented on Cue Card in an earlier post I hadn't watched the Haldon Gold Cup.......blew me away when I did. That was very very impressive and I wouldn't put anyone off backing him. He just keeps getting better and a stone better horse than he was when he threw away the race against Bobsworth.
Tizzard plans to run him in The Peterborough which is probably a good move to find out if he shows any signs of stopping at the trip like he did at Newbury
Finian's Rainbow and Cue Card are both trying to do the very thing so many horses have failed to do and that's stay further than their best form suggests they can.
If Long Run bounces back to his best and hacks up on Saturday we may find a few trainers changing plans.........used to be easy when Kauto was running you just backed him AP and sat back and relaxed waited for the big day and collected. Now I'm damned if I know what to fancy.
Both Long Run and Finian's Rainbow look sure to go and I suppose Riverside will have an other go but he's not going to be running the entire yard there.
I have a confession to make: When I commented on Cue Card in an earlier post I hadn't watched the Haldon Gold Cup.......blew me away when I did. That was very very impressive and I wouldn't put anyone off backing him. He just keeps getting better and a stone better horse than he was when he threw away the race against Bobsworth.
Tizzard plans to run him in The Peterborough which is probably a good move to find out if he shows any signs of stopping at the trip like he did at Newbury
Finian's Rainbow and Cue Card are both trying to do the very thing so many horses have failed to do and that's stay further than their best form suggests they can.
If Long Run bounces back to his best and hacks up on Saturday we may find a few trainers changing plans.........used to be easy when Kauto was running you just backed him AP and sat back and relaxed waited for the big day and collected. Now I'm damned if I know what to fancy.
swedish chef
At the Start
I had a look at the King George market this evening, and one thing struck me. Hardly any of the first twenty-or-so horses in the betting are proven at 3m in a top-end chase.
Sure, there are plenty proven at around two-and-a-half, and there are several who seem likely to benefit from being stepped-up to this trip. But there are very few who we can authoratively say have no stamina question-marks.
Top-class 2m4f horses are often touted for the King George; principally on the premis that Kempton is an 'easy' 3 miles. But does this theory hold much water?
In the last twenty years, only Edredon Bleu, Florida Pearl and One Man have emerged as winners you would describe as anything other than thorough stayers. Almost every other winner in that period had won a race (usually either a Hennessy or Gold Cup) over 3m2f.
I'm of the view that the King George is a sterner test than is usually accepted, and to that end, have had a dash on a horse with proven class and guaranteed stamina; namely Bobsworth.
It will probably need him to win the Hennessy before Kempton will come under consideration, but at odds up to 140 on Betfair, I'm prepared to test the theory.
Can lightening strike twice
More likely to strike twice if you stick with Al Ferof
Well done!!! By the way 
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 16,050
Utter mince, Tanlic.
Bobs Worth had the speed to easily beat Sire De Grugy in a Kempton 2m hurdle, and Rock On Ruby in a 20f hurdle in his novice season. Anyone trying to paint him as some flat-footed Hussard Collonges type either doesn't know how to read the form-book, or hasn't bothered looking in the first-place.
And going back to my original point, the notion that 'speedsters' do well in the King George, appears to be somewhat baseless anyway.
PS. Thanks SC
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Bar the Bull
At the Start
I think Grassy has justified his throwaway tenner punt. And y'all have rounded on the 99% chance he won't win.
And I'd suggest anyone using form in lowly novice races to justify their view of his profile is reading the form book through rose-tinted glasses.
Three times he's been highly tried in novice chases run at a decent pace, and found wanting for a change of gear in 2 of them. That lack of speed can only be accentuated as he moves up amongst the big boys.
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
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- Nov 14, 2006
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Paint it any any you like, reet. The evidence that a turn-of-foot is needed to win a King George, or that it goes to Ryanair/'Speed' types is a bit flimsy. IMHO.
As for the 'big boys' he'll meet, who are they? Other than Long Run, no hopers already established as not good enough, or fellow second-season chasers.
Will he run? Probably not.
Will he prove good enough if he does run? Possibly not.
Is he being erroneously dismissed as a plodder with absolutely no chance if he does run? Personally, I think so.
I've backed this horse at 139/1 not 9/1, have freely acknowledged it's a total punt, and have made no recommendation that anyone follow me in. I've just mused about the accepted theory that the KG goes to speed horses and speculated accordingly. So behave yourself.
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You dont think Bobs will have the class?? Not many Gold Cup close favs you can say that about.
Paint it any any you like, reet. The evidence that a turn-of-foot is needed to win a King George, or that it goes to Ryanair/'Speed' types is a bit flimsy. IMHO.
As for the 'big boys' he'll meet, who are they? Other than Long Run, no hopers already established as not good enough, or fellow second-season chasers.
You're forgetting about the winner, dear Grasshopper...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obL1Itti16A&feature=fvst
links781
Journeyman
The more I look at it the more I convince myself Cue Card will run a massive race.Travels at pace and looks to have strengthened up.Granted the trip is an unknown but he was staying on in the Arkle.Take SS out of the race he would have been an impressive winner.The form is being franked week after week.
You're right: I didn't - nor the fact that, subsequent to the op, in a strongly run RSA, it took him all of Cheltenham's hill to get on top; much the same as it had in his only similar test over hurdles.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
The RSA wasn't that strongly run.
bigeeps
At the Start
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2003
- Messages
- 435
There is the potential for Long Run,Riverside Theatre, Bobs Worth and Champion Chase winner Finian's Rainbow to run over three miles next season, with the quartet potentially facing each other in the King George VI Chase on Boxing Day.
"Bobs Worth will probably start off in the Hennessy. I think that's the right race for him and he probably prefers going left-handed rather than right-handed," Henderson told At The Races.
"The idea would be to step Finian's Rainbow up in trip and really have a look at him. He'd be heading King George way, but then so will Long Run and Riverside Theatre.
no mention of bobs worth for kg there then
without scouring history it doesn't seem to my mind, at least recently, that hennessy runners go for the kg?
can imagine them going for something like the argento in january instead as his gold cup prep.
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edgt
Senior Jockey
One Man, Teeton Mill (or did he win Hennessy?),
Batchelors Hall, Bright Highway in late 70s early 80s
a lot depends on the horse's profile.
Batchelors Hall, Bright Highway in late 70s early 80s
a lot depends on the horse's profile.
EC1
On a break
I backed Teeton Mill in the Hennessey and KG..one of my fav horses from that time..happy memories
just a bit of aftertimimg