The Road to the 2017 Champion Hurdle

Desert Orchid said:
Don't forget about Sceau Royal... :whistle:
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You should forget him :lol: that thing will be tailed off by 2 out if he even turns up. You should do as the boys have done and have your lot on Buveur D'air to beat that other thing you are touting Brainless Power and cover your inevitable losses:whistle:
 
All different owners.

The inclusion of BD'A might be an admission that Yanworth or Jezki won't win for JP.

When Hendo was asked last week about the CH field falling apart he was the one to mention BP. No mention of BD'A.

Sceau Royal is the one King keeps mentioning when people ask him about Yanworth.
 
You are in a fantasy world DO...c'mon man wake up and think like an owner or a trainer

The inclusion of Buveur D'air is a logical one and had nothing to do with Yanworth's well being or otherwise.

Nicky Henderson had 2 options Run the horse in the Arkle where he has a very strong hand with Altior or run him in the Champon Hurdle where he had a much weaker hand with Brain Power

You have to accept the horse to date is an out and out 2 milers so the choices stop at Arkle or Champion Hurdle

On one hand you have the Arkle where 2nd prize if he could beat Min would gross about 33k and 3rd place 16k

On the other hand if he finished only 4th in the Champion Hurdle he'd Gross 23k 3rd 46k 2nd 93k and if he actually won a massive 260k

JP couldn't care less if he won the race with either as he is unlikely to be getting stuck in if Faugheen turns up.

260k prizes there's no need to be punting unless for a bit of fun.

As for Sceau Royal all they are saying is he's due to run in the Kingwell which Ch'tibello was said to be going for.

Now King is saying he may run Yanworth in the Kingwell and if he does you can say bye bye to Sceau Royal running in the Champion


Trainers very often tend to talk up their big owners horses and exaggerate on what they really think and if King thinks Sceau Royal has any chance he has certainly changed his mind after saying "well he only won off 149 but I suppose we should think about the Champion Hurdle".....I suppose? really confident NOT!!!....then he got stuffed scoped dirty or not I don't know here he's getting this new found confidence from if it really exists. He beat nothing in a nothing race and he will be tailed off and Wayne Hutchison being the gentleman he is will say what a fooking waste of time and money that was :p

Daryl will of course ride Footpad he'd be mad not to.

Strange things have happened like Kirriemuir 50/1 A horse of Baldings won at 50/1 Hardy 33/1 even stranger Sublimity won but Sceau Royal who couldn't raise a gallop in a Triumph hurdle winning would top em all...........he'll be 100 on the machine if he turns up and Daryl is on Footpad
 
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pocket talk but best option for Buveur Dair was to remain in JLT, had a great chance against Yorkhill over fences than vs. Yanworth over hurdles.. I don't know whats going to happen today with him, but seriously in the CH, even without Faugheen, he'll struggle to get placed(against also Petit, NC, TNO). He would've got the 2nd spot in the Supreme with a better ride but he was still still 7 lengths behind Altior. While Altior was a bit special, for me last season question that never got answered was what would've happened if Altior and Yanworth met over 2 miles. Yanworth only mishap was over 2 and half with a very poor ride and only beaten a length by a good one in Yorkhill. With a proper ride he would've got rid of that by 5 lengths, let alone over shorter trips.

Buveur Dair doesn't fits this high profile picture and would've had a much much easier task against Yorkhill in the JLT. Its a mistake regardless what he does today against a good yardstick in Ravin Black, but the good thing is that they can change their minds between now and then.
 
Aughex said:
pocket talk but best option for Buveur Dair was to remain in JLT, had a great chance against Yorkhill over fences than vs. Yanworth over hurdles.. I don't know whats going to happen today with him, but seriously in the CH, even without Faugheen, he'll struggle to get placed(against also Petit, NC, TNO). He would've got the 2nd spot in the Supreme with a better ride but he was still still 7 lengths behind Altior. While Altior was a bit special, for me last season question that never got answered was what would've happened if Altior and Yanworth met over 2 miles. Yanworth only mishap was over 2 and half with a very poor ride and only beaten a length by a good one in Yorkhill. With a proper ride he would've got rid of that by 5 lengths, let alone over shorter trips.

Buveur Dair doesn't fits this high profile picture and would've had a much much easier task against Yorkhill in the JLT. Its a mistake regardless what he does today against a good yardstick in Ravin Black, but the good thing is that they can change their minds between now and then.
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You're confusing me how are you getting on with yourself? Yorkhill was all the rage last year and the Master Cheltenham tipster Davy Russell had him down as his banker of the meeting.

You want to be taken seriously you could say but for hitting a flat spot Yanworth may have given Yorkhill more to think about but when you write shyte like he would have beaten him 5 lengths you just make people think you're an idiot.

Yorkhill made mincemeat of him and the race was over before Yanworth got going and ain't that the truth. He would also be Mullins Champion Hurdle horse if Faugheen and Annie had been out of the picture he's got bags of speed.

Don't under estimate Bouveur D'air Augie he was a big baby last season has bundles of speed and was the head of the early pecking list until they realised he was maturing as quickly as Altior. He was given a deliberate ride in the Supreme not a bad ride as he wouldn't have won anyway.
 
It was kinda funny to see Hendo trying to convince himself that it was a good performance, almost asking Chappie what he thought :lol: Surely to JP who's a more able judge that looks below whats required and gets him back to JLT. Again pocket talk but thats because I know for a fact he'd have a easier task in there than going for the classiest race in the calendar.
 
Aughex said:
It was kinda funny to see Hendo trying to convince himself that it was a good performance, almost asking Chappie what he thought :lol: Surely to JP who's a more able judge that looks below whats required and gets him back to JLT. Again pocket talk but thats because I know for a fact he'd have a easier task in there than going for the classiest race in the calendar.
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Are you watching races in a parallel universe?
 
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To put things into some kind of perspective, Buveur D'Air has beaten Rayvin Black two lengths getting 4lbs. He's done it on the bridle, as he should have, but we don't know exactly what he had in reserve.

At Wincanton, Sceau Royal, still a 4yo, gave Rayvin Black 5lbs plus the rider's 3lbs allowance which he couldn't claim today, and beat him nine lengths almost as easily.

You have to believe Buveur D'Air had at least 20lbs (over 20 lengths) in reserve today to equal Sceau Royal's form. He clearly had plenty, but twenty lengths is an awful lot.
 
No, don't do that @DO, at least not yet! Let me get the heat for couple hours until all trolls dispatched their insults and then we can hopefully start discussing form and racing.
 
Desert Orchid said:
At Wincanton, Sceau Royal, still a 4yo, gave Rayvin Black 5lbs plus the rider's 3lbs allowance which he couldn't claim today, and beat him nine lengths almost as easily.
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Was good ground at Wincanton. Rayvin is simply much better on softer ground.
 
Frankel said:
Was good ground at Wincanton. Rayvin is simply much better on softer ground.
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Accepted, but King said afterwards, "the ground would have been as quick as [SR] really wants it but I think we have got away with it." Who knows, maybe on softer ground he'd have beaten RB by further :)
 
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The only worthwhile point there is Euro's. Trying to quantify a performance like that is utterly pointless because he won using as little energy as possible and nothing more.

Why don't you compare Buv and Sceau Royal through Irving DO?
 
Frankel said:
Was good ground at Wincanton. Rayvin is simply much better on softer ground.
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You do realize he gave BDair 4 lbs? You know how many pounds TNO gave Ravin Black at a track he hates(Haydock) and still won by 2 lengths?
 
TheBear said:
Why don't you compare Buv and Sceau Royal through Irving DO?
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I would if it meant anything, as I suspect you know full well.

Irving was 56 lengths behind Rayvin Black in the Kingwell last season. Am I to take that line seriously as well?
 
Aughex said:
No, don't do that @DO, at least not yet! Let me get the heat for couple hours until all trolls dispatched their insults and then we can hopefully start discussing form and racing.
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You're wired to the moon man using Rayvin Black to justify anything is as stupid as it gets. That fookin thing wouldn't get within 2 hurdles of Buveur Dair in the Champion Hurdle and your trying to compare TNO's victory over him to today's race.........are you nuts?

The same applies to you DO with Sceau Royal...Rayvin Black isn't even worth a mention he's about as relevant to the Champion Hurdle as Golden Horn is to next years Grand national.

Buveur Dair has always threatened to be top class and it's common knowledge he has always been rated very highly by Nicky Henderson and he is now joint 2nd Fav for the Champion Hurdle......as for Rayvin Black you can have 5000/1 so c'mon men lets get real here
 
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My own take on Buveur D'air is that is the 2nd time I have seen him pick up in an instance. Today and once over fences,

While he is beating nothing it's that sudden gear change then 3 or 4 strides later straight back into cruise control only he just added 6 mph to the speed he was cruising at before.

Hope that explains what I mean.............Only a high class animal can do that and as a backer of Petite Mouchoir I wish he'd go for the JLT because he is one scary horse
 
Frankel said:
And your point is?
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My point was that he should be reversed to JLT like I initially explained, pocket reasons including but that was because he'd have a far easier task in beating Yorkhill than in winning the CH. In a CH you need a 170 performance to win, last year 171 to beat AP, the previous 172 to beat Faugheen, previous 171 to beat Jezki, and so on. While in a JLT you don't need that kinda of performance. BDair is a very nice horse but even by winning relatively impressive from Ravin Black, he was receiving 4lbs and was entitled to do that to a 150 rated handicapper. It wasn't like he was giving him 8lbs like TNO gave on a racecourse he hates and on BR preferred heavy ground. Where's TNO in the CH betting I ask you? JP will no doubt make the right call with him and I'm sure Hendo will too after analysing the options.
 
Tanlic sorry if I don't respond to you, but in every post you mention either what a jockey thinks, what Nicky thinks, what you feel when seeing him picking in an instant, what the market thinks of BDair in the CH and so forth. I can't answer to what other people think only to facts, but I appreciate the time you take to answer to my posts.
 
There's an extremely strong case now that the novice hurdle form of last season was stronger than anything produced in open company. Trying to make a case for horses like TNO is barking up the wrong tree in my very humble opinion. That generation are about to be made to look very ordinary, Faugheen apart.
 
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