The Road To The 2018 Champion Hurdle

Who will win the 2018 CH

  • Buveur D'Air

    Votes: 17 54.8%

  • Faugheen

    Votes: 10 32.3%

  • Other

    Votes: 4 12.9%
  • Total voters
    31
  • Poll closed .
Grasshopper said:
I thought CP was potentially well-handicapped off 145, and backed him for the Greatwood. The handicap at Newbury suggests he will need more help from the handicapper, before he is up to winning again.

Defi best judged next time. If he blows again, I'll be letting him go, and conceding that I've probably over-rated the juvenile form last season.
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Nicky was spouting on about CP being a much better horse on Spring ground fwiw

@brendan -it's prob not relevant to the champion hurdle but I don't think there is any doubt that Faugheen staying is in any dispute.

if him and Buveir lined up over 3m in March, pretty sure the result will be the same as it will be over 2m
 
I wasn't disputing it just the notion that F is a stronger stayer.
As for your assertion over the 3 mile distance we'll never see that so just conjecture on your part.
Hopefully the 2 mile distance will come into play March 2018
 
brendanr said:
I wasn't disputing it just the notion that F is a stronger stayer.
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Check their records.
BD has won the majority his races with a burst of speed in the closing stages - small wonder he's mostly been confined to the minimum trip, thus far
Faugheen has raced (and won) over a variety of trips - often making all to do so.
Maybe it's coincidence they've both been placed into such races, and ridden in the manner they have?
 
Just on DDS is there a valid reason why he won the Triumph nearly 20 seconds slower than Arctic Fire won the County on the same day carrying a stone more?

I don't see one.
 
There were ten more runners in the County, Bear, and therefore pace was coming from a lot more places, and was more sustained as a result.

I'm loathe to defend Defi given the way this thread has gone, but it is a valid reason for the time differential between the two races, imho.

FWIW, I think Defi would have benefited from a stronger pace in the Triumph....though concede that the form is now open to question.

PS, For accuracies sake, it was 9lbs more, rather than a stone. :cool:
 
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Fair enough. I'm not Defi bashing. Personally I'd like to see a 3rd horse enter this equation so hopefully he can show his best next time out.
 
brendanr said:
Maybe
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Maybe you should understand this;
Faugheen is a horse with a high cruising speed, but still has the gears (and stamina) to up the pace when necessary, as he demonstrated admirably on his seasonal debut.
BD is essentially a speed horse, who has yet to prove his stalk and pounce tactics effective against the calibre of the former. Anyone expecting the latter to sit and pick off Faugheen in the closing stages of the CH probably underestimates the nous of - hopefully - Ruby Walsh (remember Champagne Fever over the same c/d) and the capabilty of his mount.
 
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To clear up this stamina thing every Champion Hurdle winner I have seen since Salmon Spray stayed further than 2 miles except 1 and he never even stayed 2 miles in a true ran Grade 1.

That was Sublimity who only one because he was the only horse there who never ran like or was a donkey. Detroit City never really turned up, Hardy Eustace who always ran to the line stopped like shot. Brave Inca had been under pressure for 1 mile and he also died on his feet leaving Sublimity the race on a plate.

On his 4 or so other attempts at Cheltenham he never saw the trip out once and won about 2 from 20 after Cheltenham in slow run races.

So stamina and speed is an absolute must if you are to win the Champion Hurdle

Arctic Fire who for me was a 2m4f horse who was more stamina than speed fished right up Faugheen's backside but back on an easier track Faugheen who has it all annihilated him. Back at Cheltenham again his stamina being the most important factor out battled L'ami Serge up the hill

This is where I disagree with my comrade Grassy on which race was Faugheens best..to me it was when Arctic Fire was at the top of his game in the Champion Hurdle.

I just don't feel that will be good enough to beat Buveur D'air who has the stamina to match but is the one most likely to find the extra speed required from the last. Note: Taking it Faugheen has not already shot the craw and Ruby is in the weighing room:lol:
 
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The lengths BD is going to gain at each and every hurdle should not be underestimated.


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Not that it matters in the grand scheme of things Champion Hurdle wise but it shouldn’t be forgotten that Buveur D’Air is a half brother to the high class stayer Punchestowns who was a length and three quarters second to Big Bucks in a World Hurdle. Big Bucks is the best staying hurdler in history and Punchestowns got closer than anything else at the festival over the years. He has more staying attributes in his pedigree than Faugheen. We just haven’t seen him further than 2m4f yet, his breeding suggests that would pose no problem. But he is far from just a speed horse reet. He has speed and stamina in abundance and boy can he hurdle. Deadly mix.


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TheBear said:
The lengths BD is going to gain at each and every hurdle should not be underestimated.


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As someone who learned the hard way in both Faugheen's Neptune & CH victores, his hurdling does NOT seem to slow him down... I was massively against him both times for exactly that reason... It had to catch up to him. In the CH, the faster pace would have to hinder him the way he hurdles... It didn't and I don't think it ever has. While he ploughs through plenty of them, his momentum never seems to be halted. I'm by no means nailing my colours to the mast as I'm really not sure who will win between him and the Buv, merely pointing out the historical evidence re: Faugheen's hurdling.

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I think it was the 2nd last in his CH win that he fluffed but by then he’d already spread eagled the field.

It’s all opinion and debate from here till March hopefully but I doubt there’s anyone on here who thinks if one didn’t make it the other wouldn’t win. It’s nitpicking between two class animals.


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Berry Gaharti is normally very non committal but anyone who saw him being interviewed after the Buvi race must have saw that smirk of "I got this" Certainly gave me the impression defeat is out of the question
 
Fake News is not allowed on here...Barry says it as he sees it always has and that is why he is respected and he knows how to spell Buveur :)
 
Tanlic said:
Fake News is not allowed on here...Barry says it as he sees it always has and that is why he is respected and he knows how to spell Buveur :)
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But yet he butchers his own surname - what a strange one he must be

Tanlic said:
Berry Gaharti is normally very non committal but anyone who saw him being interviewed after the Buvi race must have saw that smirk of "I got this" Certainly gave me the impression defeat is out of the question
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Interesting to hear Kevin Blake & Vanessa Ryle both reference a quote from Willie Mullins on the Final Furlong Podcast in reviewing the Fighting Fifth. Mullins basically said he reckoned he had Faugheen 85% fit going into the Morgianna but after his win he had to reevaluate that to some where very near 100% fit as there’s no wit he could produce that at 85%!!

Which supports a lot of what I’ve been saying here. Where does the improvement come from going ahead and when do they give him a break?

Buveur on the other hand has massive scope for improvement. Fat & pudgy were words Henderson used to describe him in the build up to last Saturday.


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I'd stay away from quotes of quotes, especially from someone who used to threw trash at Faugheen all day long until the ICH and the english #Box gate Ryle who's jumping at the chance of opposing an Irish horse. There's no real way of measuring how he turned out unless we use the past as the reference and its no way on his first run with home gallops to be 100% race fit, thats BDair dreamers that don't accept reality, sorry.
 
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