The Road To The 2018 Champion Hurdle

Who will win the 2018 CH

  • Buveur D'Air

    Votes: 17 54.8%

  • Faugheen

    Votes: 10 32.3%

  • Other

    Votes: 4 12.9%
  • Total voters
    31
  • Poll closed .
Grasshopper said:
Trust me, you don't want to start trolling me - you'll get a silver medal.

Mind how you go.
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We can hang it beside the one Faugheen gets next March. Take a breath grass. There’s a lot of banter to be had between here & March!!


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"It still doesn't justify Grassy's claim that MTOY with his record wouldn't get anywhere near Faugheen."


Show me the line of form which suggests MTOY would get within a half-dozen lengths of a top-of-his-game Faugheen. In fact - fu*ck it - show me one where he'd get within 10L.
 
Kauto Abu said:
We can hang it beside the one Faugheen gets next March. Take a breath grass. There’s a lot of banter to be had between here & March!!


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Banter I like.

Misrepresenting me, trolling me, or blatantly taking the ****? I tend not to stand for that (though I always make an exception for Tanlic, as we go back a ways, and besides, he's really old and dribbly and quite insane).
 
Grasshopper said:
Banter I like.

Misrepresenting me, trolling me, or blatantly taking the ****? I tend not to stand for that (though I always make an exception for Tanlic, as we go back a ways, and besides, he's really old and dribbly and quite insane).
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I don’t think I was misrepresenting or trolling you. I was merely stating facts. You yourself said you went back in at 14s & 20s after he was stuffed at Ascot in single bets. And to be honest if he flops again he could well end up in the county hurdle come March, I stand over that.

Ivanovich Gorbatov won all before him beating Apples Jade in the Triumph and ended up in the county the year after. It happens.


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Of course you misrepresented me.

Every post I've made on this thread about DDS has been caveated by me acknowledging that BDA is the horse to beat.......or BDA/Faugheen are the horses to beat........I even said that you can't tell how good juveniles are, until they've run in open company. Your 'tinted-spectacles' statement was therefore bullsh*it rather than fact.

Going in again was a price-based decision, because I felt it was an over-reaction to his FTO performance in the Ascot Hurdle, and my bets are each-way rather than win-only. No more than that.

For the record, Gorbatov was a well-beaten 4th in Leopardstown before he won the Triumph. Maybe you need a fact-checker before you post?
 
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Grasshopper said:
Of course you misrepresented me.

Every post I've made on this thread about DDS has been caveated by me acknowledging that BDA is the horse to beat.......or BDA/Faugheen are the horses to beat........I even said that you can't tell how good juveniles are, until they've run in open company. Your 'tinted-spectacles' statement was therefore bullsh*it rather than fact.

Going in again was a price-based decision, because I felt it was an over-reaction to his FTO performance in the Ascot Hurdle, and my bets are each-way rather than win-only. No more than that.

For the record, Gorbatov was a well-beaten 4th in Leopardstown before he won the Triumph. Maybe you need a fact-checker before you post?
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“Defi travels, jumps, quickens, goes on any ground, stands plenty of racing, will stay beyond 2m, and already has stacks of track form at Cheltenham. That is a much more attractive profile than most others I can think of, and I don't see any reason why he can't go right to the top, and give Buveur D'Air plenty to think about next season”




Not my words, yours. You seemed bullish of him putting it up to BD here anyway.


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Grasshopper said:
"It still doesn't justify Grassy's claim that MTOY with his record wouldn't get anywhere near Faugheen."


Show me the line of form which suggests MTOY would get within a half-dozen lengths of a top-of-his-game Faugheen. In fact - fu*ck it - show me one where he'd get within 10L.
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The only possible key to the puzzle is The New One.

Faugheen beat him 8 3/4 lengths

Annie Power Beat Him 8 3/4 lengths

Buvuer D/Air beat him 10 3/4

All when horses are most likely to be at their best

On 2 occasions MTOY finished 2nd well ahead of the New One

where would you have him finsish if he had run the same race in Faugheen's year?

It's not about Faugheen being at his best it's about MTOY being at his best which is once a year unlike Faugheen

It is blatantly obvious he would have been beaten by faugheen but by **** MTOY would surely have beaten The New One a few lengths for the 4th time in a Champion Hurdle.

So deduct those few lengths from the 8 3/4 Faugheen beat the New One and you will get the answer.

if you wants dispute the facts then que sera
 
Kauto Abu said:
“Defi travels, jumps, quickens, goes on any ground, stands plenty of racing, will stay beyond 2m, and already has stacks of track form at Cheltenham. That is a much more attractive profile than most others I can think of, and I don't see any reason why he can't go right to the top, and give Buveur D'Air plenty to think about next season”




Not my words, yours. You seemed bullish of him putting it up to BD here anyway.
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You really want to keep at this, KA?

I don't deny any of those words, and stand behind them. Clearly, I was disappointed after the Ascot Hurdle, and said as much - though I note you choose not to quote that part.

You have a swagger about your posts on this thread; no doubt related to you putting BDA up at 33/1 for the Champion - something I roundly congratulated you on at the time. But if you think this gives you carte-blanche to misrepresent me on THIS year's thread, I suggest you think again. That pick is yesterday's chip-papers, as far as I'm concerned.

My position on Defi has been quite clear. High-hopes, but with an acknowledgment that he needed to prove himself (and improve himself) before he could emerge as a genuine threat to BDA. So far, that hasn't happened, and it may never happen. This is an occupational hazard when you select horses, and I call it wrong more often than I call it right.....as we all do.

I've had a look back through some of your posts, and suggest you stand-down on this apparent war-of-words you want to have with me. I've no desire to get involved in a barney, but I'm a fu*cking champ at it, when I need to be.

Good luck with Buveur D'Air. He has no apparent holes in him, and there's every chance he will repeat, based on what we've seen so far.

I suggest we move on.
 
Tanlic said:
The only possible key to the puzzle is The New One.

Faugheen beat him 8 3/4 lengths

Annie Power Beat Him 8 3/4 lengths

Buvuer D/Air beat him 10 3/4

All when horses are most likely to be at their best

On 2 occasions MTOY finished 2nd well ahead of the New One

where would you have him finsish if he had run the same race in Faugheen's year?

It's not about Faugheen being at his best it's about MTOY being at his best which is once a year unlike Faugheen

It is blatantly obvious he would have been beaten by faugheen but by **** MTOY would surely have beaten The New One a few lengths for the 4th time in a Champion Hurdle.

So deduct those few lengths from the 8 3/4 Faugheen beat the New One and you will get the answer.

if you wants dispute the facts then que sera
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My answer to this is Faugheen was not at his very-best in the 2015 Champion Hurdle, but rather he was at his very-best in the Irish Champion Hurdle in 2016. You are rating Faugheen through the wrong race.
 
Grasshopper said:
At what point did I say DDS was near the class of BDA, let alone Faugheen?

Have a word with yourself.
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Grass the last quote was in reference to this post from you earlier. It was made by you early in this thread so I don’t see how I could quote anything from Ascot or edit that part out? Ascot hadn’t happened.

It demonstrated where you clearly had high hopes of DDS going right to the top and putting it up to BD, contrary to your other remarks of him to having it all to do against him. Hence the green & gold tinted glasses comment earlier by me. So I do refute your claim of me trolling/misrepresenting you and take offence to it when this was clearly not the case. I’ve been a member of this forum a while now, I enjoy coming on and discussing NH racing as most of my friends aren’t into it. I’ve better thing to be doing with my life than logging on and trolling people.




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PS. I never put up BD at 33/1 for the CH so maybe you should check your facts before posting.


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Well someone did....can't recall who.....whoever it was, it was a belter of a shout.

If you selectively choose one quote, whilst ignoring all the rest, it's trolling.

Let's move on. Bored with this now.

PS. No hard feelings on my part. :thumbsup:
 
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Having read all that I’ve got to say you did bite a bit early there Grassy, and to be fair to Kauto he tried to put water on the fire a couple of times. There are some absolute aresholes on here who are intent on mindless trolling but I really think you’ve read this one incorrectly.

Maybe it’s a case of not knowing your audience because you are usually first in the queue for a spot of **** taking!


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Your man says he was talking to yer man and yer man said he thinks he'll stay 3 miles all days and so does yer man who wasn't available for comment:D
 
Won an Ascot Hurdle, won a Neptune Hurdle, won a 3-mile novice hurdle, won a Point.

How much evidence does one need, brendan?
 
At this time last year or a bit later on it was all Defi and Charli. We found out Charli wasn't quite up to it after the Triumph but still held out hope for Defi.

Now after one race everyone seems to think he is no longer a threat to the big 2. That is way too premature and if I thought I could lay him off for money after his next run I'd be crabbing all the 20's I could get.

However laying off on the exchanges for real $$$$$ is near impossibly. before the big day draws near. That why the price doesn't get snatched up no immediate advantage in taking it

As for Charli the Schweppes is where he is heading or at least that's the impression I get from someone at Seven Barrows very close to Nicky..I hope she is right as I reckon of his mark he'd have to go very close and Nicky does love the race

No doubt I will be shot down for suggesting he's good enough but I'll be backing him first chance I get
 
Grasshopper said:
Won an Ascot Hurdle, won a Neptune Hurdle, won a 3-mile novice hurdle, won a Point.

How much evidence does one need, brendan?
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Hmm
To paraphrase one departed EC1 a class animal can beat inferior animals over most any distance.
That 3 mile maiden race was filled with vastly inferior horses and the Ascot race well I'm real sure that BD would have won that one quite a bit easier from what I remember about that race.
Wasn't that the one where Faugheen looked very labored. No comment on PTP stuff.

I'll grant you the Neptune to a certain extent bit even that is not totally convincing to me.
I'd argue that BD's Aintree Hurdle is superior to anything Faugheen put up over a longer distance by a good way actually.

An on the up champion 7yo against a 10 yo former champion with some sort of medical issues,
the younger horse clearly a better jumper of hurdles. I don't know ??

I say let them get there and then we'll see.
 
reet hard said:
There's good evidence that Faugheen will prove the stronger stayer, and a searching pace would be more in his favour than BDA's
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Exactly, he was bred as a Gold Cup horse, his breeder and first trainer only had the staying route in mind. Thats what Mullins also said after hisNeptune but the pace he showed in the 2m novice at P'town afterwards was exactly upside down from his breeding and what happened next is history. Like I said, once he's ridden with that in mind and won't make it tactical there won't be anyone to challenge him at the end and his rating will better reflect his talent and I kept saying this in the last 3 years, it somewhat happened in the ICH 2 years ago but hopefully he can get to the CH improve his very cautious rating with 5-10lbs.
 
I wasn't suggesting Faugheen's form over staying-trips is better than BDA's Aintree Hurdle, brendan. It self-evidently is not, but then again, given Faugheen hasn't been seen over 2m3f since that Ascot Hurdle (he wasn't extended, so not sure why you think he was very laboured), he hasn't had the chance to improve his 'staying' form.

As for his novice season, he hacked all over Empire of Dirt (won a Troytown and second in an Irish Gold Cup) over 2m6f as a novice, and hacked-up in a common canter against (admittedly) make-weights in that Grade 3. He also won a 3m point.

You asked for "evidence". All we can present is that which is in his race record, which some will accept as proof that he is a stout stayer, and others will dismiss as irrelevant. Each to their own.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure that 'staying' is going to be relevant anyway, in terms of the next Champion Hurdle. I fully expect Faugheen to make the pace, and BDA to be held-up, with a view to mugging him late. As I alluded to earlier, it should be a fascinating tactical battle, and I just hope both make it to post in ripe form.
 
Tanlic said:
At this time last year or a bit later on it was all Defi and Charli. We found out Charli wasn't quite up to it after the Triumph but still held out hope for Defi.

Now after one race everyone seems to think he is no longer a threat to the big 2. That is way too premature and if I thought I could lay him off for money after his next run I'd be crabbing all the 20's I could get.

However laying off on the exchanges for real $$$$$ is near impossibly. before the big day draws near. That why the price doesn't get snatched up no immediate advantage in taking it

As for Charli the Schweppes is where he is heading or at least that's the impression I get from someone at Seven Barrows very close to Nicky..I hope she is right as I reckon of his mark he'd have to go very close and Nicky does love the race

No doubt I will be shot down for suggesting he's good enough but I'll be backing him first chance I get
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I thought CP was potentially well-handicapped off 145, and backed him for the Greatwood. The handicap at Newbury suggests he will need more help from the handicapper, before he is up to winning again.

Defi best judged next time. If he blows again, I'll be letting him go, and conceding that I've probably over-rated the juvenile form last season.
 
Reet suggested that the evidence for F being a stronger stayer than BD was apparent.
I just don't quite see it that way.

Agree that stamina will have no impact come March. This effectively looks like a two horse race right now and the scenario you describe is most likely to transpire.
 
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