The Road To The 2018 Champion Hurdle

Who will win the 2018 CH

  • Buveur D'Air

    Votes: 17 54.8%

  • Faugheen

    Votes: 10 32.3%

  • Other

    Votes: 4 12.9%
  • Total voters
    31
  • Poll closed .
Euro!!! U need to get out more


Horse Born Rating
Night Nurse 1971 182
Monksfield 1972 180
Istabraq 1992 180
Persian War 1963 179
Comedy of Errors 1967 178
Le Sauvignon 1994 178
Lanzarote 1968 177
Limestone Lad 1992 177
Bula 1965 176
Sir Ken 1948 176 *
Birds Nest 1970 176
Golden Cygnet 1972 176
Big Buck's 2003 176
Faugheen 2008 176
Salmon Spray 1958 175
Sea Pigeon 1970 175
Gaye Brief 1977 175
Baracouda 1995 175


We've had some great hurdlers over the years. Night Nurse may be at the top of Timeform but Istabraq for me was the greatest of all time.......he had it all just didn't have the same opposition as Night Nurse did but would have beaten them all IMO
 
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You post the list up to disagree with Euro but then disagree with it yourself!

On what planet is Big Bucks the same quality of animal as The Machine? Not the one I live on.


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I think someone pointed this out with regards to chasers(Arkle period), but now looking at the hurdling list of Timeforms, you're telling me that in a period of 5 years(1967-72) there were 7 hurdlers of similar ability to Faugheen? Seems inflated. Lets not forget in the race when he was rated 176, Ruby stopped ridding in the last 100 yards.

Tanlic, thats how the best horse in training looks like ;)
 
TheBear said:
You post the list up to disagree with Euro but then disagree with it yourself!

On what planet is Big Bucks the same quality of animal as The Machine? Not the one I live on.


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I posted the list to let him know racing has been going on for quite some time......If Faugheen is the best he has seen then blow me he hasn't seen much. He won his champion Hurdle ok but let's not forget he was disappointing to those who thought he'd **** up.

Augie is right he was eased when he got his 176...no bloody wonder Arctic Fire was injured and never raced for 13 months..giving a horse a rating for beating an invalid should have people disputing it not boasting about it.

Euro is entitled to his opinion but you know whats wrong with this form people say things like...............Altior is the greatest horse of all time and back it up with nothing..........wtf has faugheen beat to say he's the greatest of all time......Arctic Fire? The New One...FFS look at the horses form and his opponents...........No where near the best and he may well be overrated at 176...def debateable.
 
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At your age you're losing couple neurons per hour, your form analysis has gotten even worse, if thats possible..
 
I've got to say, that's the best performance Faugheen had put in on his seasonal debut. He also looked fit first time which he's never done before. It was great to see.

I love him but I'm not getting carried away by him stuffing Jezki. I reckon if Jezki had run in last seasons Champion Hurdle he'd have been out with the washing. I'll have look at the time tomorrow but for now all I'd say is he's over his injury, he's fit and well, and maybe he could put up a performance close to those he's achieved in the past.

Fingers crossed he can repeat it, but Buveur D'Air is the younger horse and entitled to improve and right now I know which way I'd be leaning.
 
This is going to be so much fun & it’s only November.

Shades of build up to The Fly’s ‘14 Champion Hurdle or Vautour in that KG all over again!!

The only downside of todays win was that BD was only nudged out in the book a mere fraction in most places.


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Tanlic said:
Euro!!! U need to get out more


Horse Born Rating
Night Nurse 1971 182
Monksfield 1972 180
Istabraq 1992 180
Persian War 1963 179
Comedy of Errors 1967 178
Le Sauvignon 1994 178
Lanzarote 1968 177
Limestone Lad 1992 177
Bula 1965 176
Sir Ken 1948 176 *
Birds Nest 1970 176
Golden Cygnet 1972 176
Big Buck's 2003 176
Faugheen 2008 176
Salmon Spray 1958 175
Sea Pigeon 1970 175
Gaye Brief 1977 175
Baracouda 1995 175


We've had some great hurdlers over the years. Night Nurse may be at the top of Timeform but Istabraq for me was the greatest of all time.......he had it all just didn't have the same opposition as Night Nurse did but would have beaten them all IMO
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Not counting the likes of Night Nurse and Sea Pigeon who were at it a decade before I got into racing. I accept that Istabraq was a better jumper of a hurdle, much better, but it doesn't matter. Faugheen would just have powered past him after the last. The Big Buck's inclusion I'm assuming is a joke.
 
I don't go back as far as some but I'm in the camp that your only as good as what you've won and I think in NH racing longevity counts for a lot. Istabraq and the Fly to me are the best that i can remember. It might be unfair on Faugheen as he's had such a long time out and thats no fault of his own but as such for me he will never rate as highly as the other 2 mentioned. It was great to see him back today and it would great to see him come back to win another champion hurdle but he has to get there in one piece first.

Those ratings above i find a joke really to try and compare horses like Limestone Lad ( one of my all time favourites ) with the cream of Champion Hurdlers is just not realistic same goes for Big Bucks and any other staying hurdler.
 
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Aughex said:
At your age you're losing couple neurons per hour, your form analysis has gotten even worse, if thats possible..
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You're waffling as usual..............just total shyte with nothing to back it up.

I stated Arctic Fire was out of sorts when Faugheen beat him 15 lengths and because he was out of sorts questioned whether handicapper rating him 176 was justidied or not.

You in turn reply with an insult............So here my take on that. If you can't have an adult conversation and add something constructive to a debate best you shut the **** up...Savvy?
 
Faugheen looked great and it was an excellent performance but we have to face facts Jezki ain't no chicken and gets some real doings these days.

The withdrawal of Vroum Vroum IMO was to make sure Faugheen was unlikely to be put to the sword and was only in there as a sub in the first place hence the long odds on offer.

Faugheen has always had a pretty easy time of it beating up the non combatants of the Champion Hurdle army.

They included the professional Champion Hurdle loser the New One who fished only 3/4 length in front of Hargam that day granted because he was out on his feet trying to catch Faugheen

Others he was asked to beat I doubt if many could remember their names without looking back........The Neptune boasted just about nothing bar Cole Harden but he was beaten miles that day.

However he got to the Champion Hurdle in one piece but the expected fireworks just bever happened..He won ok but another 100 yds and many think Arctic Fire would have beat him.


IMO it was a very poor time for CH contenders the 3rd that year was Hurricane Fly in his very last race going off at 8/1 tells all. He still has it but he's just beat another oap and that is the fact of the matter

These younger horses like Defi and Bouveur are different class to Arctic Fire and will have no problem picking up Faugheen..............9/4 about him for the Champion........mugs bet if ever there was one
 
Tanlic said:
You're waffling as usual..............just total shyte with nothing to back it up.

I stated Arctic Fire was out of sorts when Faugheen beat him 15 lengths and because he was out of sorts questioned whether handicapper rating him 176 was justidied or not.

You in turn reply with an insult............So here my take on that. If you can't have an adult conversation and add something constructive to a debate best you shut the **** up...Savvy?
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I never insult people on internet forums. If you perceived it as such I apologize, I didn't mean it as an affront to your age but rather made a comment on your lack of skills when it comes to judging horses form. For instance you claim that Arctic Fire was out for 13 months so we shouldn't take his run seriously, however Faugheen was out 22 months so that means he was missing a leg in that race? How can you downgrade a race based on the injuries they picked 3-4 weeks after an event? Faugheen picked an injury 3 weeks after the race when returning to normal training, while AF was injured a week later also in training.

Secondly, NC 30 lengths back in 3rd that day was not coincidental, his jockey pushed him to stay along Faugheen and could only do that until 2 out. His next outing came 3rd in the Champion only 4 lengths behind a mare to which he was giving 7 pounds. Without the mistake at the last he would've been 2nd. No handicapper claims NC run to his best in the Irish Champion, otherwise Faugheen would've been rated 200, instead they rated NC 2 stones below his best. They rated Arctic Fire 1 stone below his best. Faugheen rating was a very very safe view, and you can see that because all 3 major rating organizations rated him 176 when most of the times there's a difference in performance ratings, usually RP goes 4-5 lb higher than TF but could go the other way but they rarely match, especially with the official handicapper who is always on the safe side.

An objective person would see things as they are but I guess you'll never see the light.
 
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Danny said:
I don't go back as far as some but I'm in the camp that your only as good as what you've won and I think in NH racing longevity counts for a lot
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In case you don't know Faugheen's been around since 2013, almost 5 years, he just returned with a sensational performance. Rather than dismissing him because he was injured for 2 years, you could appreciate the best performance in that race's history, beating a former Champion hurdler(his jockey Mark Walsh claimed after the race Jezki was back to his old self) by 16 lengths is unheard of. The uniqueness and circumstances of yesterday's performance makes him the best I've seen.
 
Maruco said:
I've got to say, that's the best performance Faugheen had put in on his seasonal debut. He also looked fit first time which he's never done before. It was great to see.

I love him but I'm not getting carried away by him stuffing Jezki. I reckon if Jezki had run in last seasons Champion Hurdle he'd have been out with the washing. I'll have look at the time tomorrow but for now all I'd say is he's over his injury, he's fit and well, and maybe he could put up a performance close to those he's achieved in the past.

Fingers crossed he can repeat it, but Buveur D'Air is the younger horse and entitled to improve and right now I know which way I'd be leaning.
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Paul, the time was 4min dead , for the ground exceptionally quick . The race was run 9 seconds quicker than the 2mile handicap and 14 sec quicker than a decent bumper. It was quite a performance first time out against race fit horses. I have it up there with his best runs. If he keeps this form or improves nothing will touch him in March
 
Tanlic said:
Euro!!! U need to get out more


Horse Born Rating
Night Nurse 1971 182
Monksfield 1972 180
Istabraq 1992 180
Persian War 1963 179
Comedy of Errors 1967 178
Le Sauvignon 1994 178
Lanzarote 1968 177
Limestone Lad 1992 177
Bula 1965 176
Sir Ken 1948 176 *
Birds Nest 1970 176
Golden Cygnet 1972 176
Big Buck's 2003 176
Faugheen 2008 176
Salmon Spray 1958 175
Sea Pigeon 1970 175
Gaye Brief 1977 175
Baracouda 1995 175


We've had some great hurdlers over the years. Night Nurse may be at the top of Timeform but Istabraq for me was the greatest of all time.......he had it all just didn't have the same opposition as Night Nurse did but would have beaten them all IMO
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19 hurdlers there and no hurricane Fly?

Seriously
 
I thought Faugheens performance was exceptional - the nagging doubt in my mind is how he will handle the bounce effect on his next run after so long off. Really good to see him back.
 
Best of those that finished closely behind Hurricane Fly include Solwhit Go Native Thousand Stars Peddlers Cross Our Conor, Jezki and of course Arctic Fire.

Despite the long list of scalps he was rated between 2lbs and 5bs inferior to Faugheen by the handicapper and Timeform

One of them is wrongly treated best ask Inspector Grassy..he knows best
 
Faugheen's performance was roundly applauded in Members yesterday afternoon. It's really great to see him back, and in such top-form too.
 
Limestone Lad but no Hurricane Fly is akin to having a list of all time great heavyweights containing Deontay Wilder with no place for Ali.
 
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