The Two Mile Chase thread

Spot on, Euro. You can add 170 for Newmill to that list too.

EC1, we've been here before. OR's are just as much subject to over/under-estimation, as any other rating. They don't have in-built accuracy, just because they are 'official'.
 
Grasshopper said:
Spot on, Euro. You can add 170 for Newmill to that list too.

EC1, we've been here before. OR's are just as much subject to over/under-estimation, as any other rating. They don't have in-built accuracy, just because they are 'official'.
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yes you right..i'm thinking more of the Flat:) OHR's..nearly all of those are lower than such as Timeform. Maybe over the sticks there is more alignment between them

No i don't necessarily think they are accurate..is anything really?...its just if we are quoting them to support an argument..then it seems fair to think they must have some accuracy or we may as well ignore them as some kind of reference. I'll will say though..i don't see OHR's as being far out on either code..i use OHR as a start point with my time figures just to keep everything consistent. I've never really thought they have over rated many..not on the flat anyway.

I wonder what DO has for the above examples you and Euro have mentioned.

I see ratings quoted a lot on the forum.and to be honest..without knowing if they are Timeform..or OHR or whatever..they don't have a consistency in my mind as i always judge TF as being higher than OHR's...which clouds things a little.

Maybe if we quote ratings..we should just mention if they are OHR's..or TF
 
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To be fair, the OR is only important in two scenarios; where you want to have a bet in a handicap, and when you want to have an esoteric discussion about relative merit.

In the first scenario, other ratings are irrelevant, because they have no bearing on the weight horses carry. It's just a question of whether you agree/disagree with the OR - is it too high/low? - and using that to determine which horse or horses to back.

The OR is less important when discussing relative merit, because it's just one rating amongst many that can be used. We tend to get tied-up in the latter discussions, and - ultimately - we generally have our own ratings for horses anyway. Sometimes that will coincide with the OR, sometimes it will coincide with a TF (or other Agency) rating, and sometimes it will stand-alone, and not align with anyone else's view.

I always work on the premis that if a Member quoutes a rating, and doesn't explicitly qualify it in any way, then I assume they are talking about the personal rating they give a horse i.e. it's not an OR, it's not from TF, and it's not from any other agency.
 
On the novice hurdlers thread I listed the Timeform and OR figures for the top 4 for Timeform. When you add the best RPR you get (OR/T/RPR):

Penhill 138/144/141
Let's Dance 135/138p/132
Airlie Beach 140/136p/144
Consul De Thaix 132/136p/131

Obviously slightly skewed because the top three are all from the Irish handicapper but it does sort of make the Timeform rating the odd one out. As said by others, it's only someone's opinion and we're all free to follow whichever one we choose or none of them.
 
i always think they quoting official ones..mainly because i use them such a lot...you get that like that in advancing years:)

re Newmill..to be fair giving him 171..to my eye..at the time..not in retrospect..seemed fair beating 160 horses 10 ish lengths..then beat same horse 15 lengths nto.

he just a horse that peaked at that time..then it was downhill..but at the time..what rating could you have given really? ..just going on the horses beaten by him.

This is one of the reasons why i like a time perspective on races.

This sort of scenarion for instance...you have a top class field for lets say the the champion Chase...but for whatever reason..the best 3 horses fail to complete. One of those 3 was leading by 10 lengths at the last and falls. That race..if measured from a collateral form angle ...might over rate the eventual winner...who was going to get beat by 10 lengths in reality.

in that scenario..the time of the race will tell you that the winner isn't a par winner of that race..and that would be true as in reality..its been beaten 10 lengths by the moral winner.

No matter how you looked at that race..race standardisation or AvB ratings..it would tend to over rate the "winner"..because the horse that should have won..in a par or above par time/ par performance... wasn't there.

This sort of scenario happens in many races..where the par winner of a race doesn't complete and a below par winner takes it who should have finished a well beaten second.
 
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simmo said:
Genuine question - is mesen the way that myself is actually pronounced in Yorkshire? I know that a phonetic writing of the way I say it would come out something like masel - interested in the n at the end.
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I think it goes back to my roots a bit..maybe it don't..i don't know...i originate from Ilkeston...lived in Rugby for 5 years in early 60's..then back to Ilkeston and eventually in 1968 moved to Chesterfield

i don't know where it comes from from that..one thing i remember from living back "home"..ie Ilkeston.....is the Nottingham "canna"..and "dunna"..as in can't and don't. I hadn't heard that for many a year until a guy from Nottingham worked with me and he used both..it took me back.

when i first moved to Chesterfield..it was the first time i heard "thee" and "thou"..i couldn't get used it..still haven't. Its surprising how just 30 miles changes the way people talk and the expressions they use
 
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EC1 said:
Its surprising how just 30 miles changes the way people talk and the expressions they use
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Indeed - also a lot of similarities between northern England and southern Scotland - I remember a woman I worked with who was from Leeds expressing surprise at me using the phrase "Och aye" but there were a lot of bits of colloquial common ground.
 
simmo said:
Indeed - also a lot of similarities between northern England and southern Scotland - I remember a woman I worked with who was from Leeds expressing surprise at me using the phrase "Och aye" but there were a lot of bits of colloquial common ground.
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No one in Scotland has used Och Aye since Sir Harry Lauder!
 
Digger said:
No one in Scotland has used Och Aye since Sir Harry Lauder!
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Except me apparently.

What I actually said was in response to a question - do you do such and such? "och aye".

I did not say "Och aye the noo" or any such variant.

And coming from Embra, it's a fair bet that you end half of your sentences with Likes or Eh (or both) and are therefore in no position to make comment on speech patterns! :D
 
Of course he isnae, by the way, big man, so it is, nae danger.

For the record:

Masail
Yersail
Hersail
Heezsail
Theysails
 
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simmo said:
Except me apparently.

What I actually said was in response to a question - do you do such and such? "och aye".

I did not say "Och aye the noo" or any such variant.

And coming from Embra, it's a fair bet that you end half of your sentences with Likes or Eh (or both) and are therefore in no position to make comment on speech patterns! :D
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Na!!!!!!!!! you're not alone at all I actually say it a lot but in Thai :lol:............actually If I am bored I might sigh and say Och Aye or if something seems stupid to me I'll shake my head and utter it. I think it depends on what part of Scotland your from
 
Tanlic said:
Na!!!!!!!!! you're not alone at all I actually say it a lot but in Thai :lol:............actually If I am bored I might sigh and say Och Aye or if something seems stupid to me I'll shake my head and utter it. I think it depends on what part of Scotland your from
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Like the 18th century part of scotland?
 
Just to continue the off topic chatter. I overheard the following sentence in the dentists waiting room today.

e goat tant right doon hes coupun

Who'd like to hazard a translation.
 
simmo said:
Just to continue the off topic chatter. I overheard the following sentence in the dentists waiting room today.

e goat tant right doon hes coupun

Who'd like to hazard a translation.
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He got < > right down his face.
 
What part of the country is this accent from?

I'm guessing Eberdeen? Though it could maybe be SW Scotland - I've no idea what those fu*ckers sound like.

Edit: Apologies for the off-topic nature of this post.
 
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Grasshopper said:
What part of the country is this accent from?

I'm guessing Eberdeen? Though it could maybe be SW Scotland - I've no idea what those fu*ckers sound like.

Edit: Apologies for the off-topic nature of this post.
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Deepest Darkest South Lanarkshire. Like a slightly twangy Glaswegian accent.
 
What time is it Edinburgh

Whit Time's it Glasgow

Any c*** goat the time Wester Hailes

Timeist Hawick

About time I backed a winner Bangkok
 
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