The UK Political Landscape

Given that Pritti's Mammy and Daddy fled as refugees from nearby Uganda I (personally) think her paln has a nice sense of completion to it.

(ps Colin, always room in my lifeboat. But Lesia and Demitri will need to go home first.)
 
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Reminds me of "snakes and ladders".

Seriously I find it disgraceful that this crackpot idea is being contemplated.
Desert Orchid is right, it is intended to keep "Little Englanders" on side.
 
Seems a misguided plan, in the forlorn hope that plenty will be discouraged by rhe threat of shipping them to somewhere less attractive, rather than a racist motive, particularly considering its sponsor.
Does make one ashamed to be British, though and chances are it will be thrown out before it gets off the drawing board.
 
Marb said:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...YQFnoECEMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3jMqub_8yQ5dIu9znvCtV1

An opinion piece published at The Guardian but right on the mark in relation to the next election. Something I have been arguing for for some time aswell.
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The most salient feature for a change in the party of Government is that the current incumbents must lose. Oppositions must not kid themselves that people will switch their votes to them because they’ve suddenly come up will wonderful policies. It’s generally a negative vote as people look to the best place to put their cross to get rid of the lot with whom they have become dissatisfied.

To take advantage of that, opposition parties simply must not have any “frighten the horses” policies or liaisons that deter people switching. Unfortunately, their conviction in their own rightness often encourages them to do quite the opposite.
 
I couldn't disagree more in this instance, Barjon.

We are not talking about the SNP here.

We are talking about a likely scenario of a hung parliament where possible extra seats gained by the Lib Dems at the expense of the Conservatives in the Southeast might turn out to be enough to form a coalition with Labour.

We will see who is right or wrong in 2024 I guess.

A lot of water to run under the bridge before then clearly.
 
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barjon said:
The most salient feature for a change in the party of Government is that the current incumbents must lose. Oppositions must not kid themselves that people will switch their votes to them because they’ve suddenly come up will wonderful policies. It’s generally a negative vote as people look to the best place to put their cross to get rid of the lot with whom they have become dissatisfied.

To take advantage of that, opposition parties simply must not have any “frighten the horses” policies or liaisons that deter people switching. Unfortunately, their conviction in their own rightness often encourages them to do quite the opposite.
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I think that's the thinking that allows fascists get voted into power. Just get yerselves PR-STV and ye might have a chance at a functioning democracy.
 
I’m not sure what’s being disagreed. I don’t think there’s much doubt that Governments get voted out by people switching their vote, is there - albeit just to show their discontent in safe seats. In the system we have there’s really no room for peripheral parties. Sure, they can prop up the main players from time to time, but they do tend to get pilloried rather than praised for doing so - look what happened to the Liberal Democrats “sharing” government. I’m not sure how any of this allows fascists get voted into power - on the contrary their policies would likely be of the “frighten the horse” kind which would put people off switching their votes to them.

The basic two party system we have does have one huge benefit in that it stops the parties being too extreme. After all it’s not much of a jump to switch your opinion (and vote) from moderate capitalism to modern socialism, but from fascism to communism would be a gulf that few would cross.
 
barjon said:
The basic two party system we have does have one huge benefit in that it stops the parties being too extreme.
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In the last two weeks, you have a supposed independent police force doing a series of favours for the government. No one bats an eye. You have brexiteers leading the country, shipping asylum seekers to Rwanda, giving ten years for protesting, removing independent oversight of elections.......at least it prevents the extremes from getting in power. That reasonable see these actions as the norm is some achievement. And criticising it runs the risk of 'frightening the horses'.
 
HawkWing said:
In the last two weeks, you have a supposed independent police force doing a series of favours for the government. No one bats an eye. You have brexiteers leading the country, shipping asylum seekers to Rwanda, giving ten years for protesting, removing independent oversight of elections.......at least it prevents the extremes from getting in power. That reasonable see these actions as the norm is some achievement. And criticising it runs the risk of 'frightening the horses'.
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Yes, and all that is part and parcel of why they are for the boot. It’s actually having policies like that or taking actions like that which is “frightening the horses”, not criticising it.
 
It is a fu*cking embarrassment being 'British'.

We're the Timmy Mallet of the entire fu*cking continent - a noisy, irrelevant, laughing-stock of a nation.

I pray for the release of Scottish independence (and all the undoubted short-to-medium-term shite that goes with it) as soon as possible, in order that I can legally and spiritually disassociate myself from the burden of being a UK citizen. It will be the first step on our journey to re-join the list of enlightened nations of the EU. I just hope I live long enough to see it happen.

At least I (might) have a lifeboat. My sympathy is with those poor English and Welsh people who want the same outcome, but might never get the opportunity. It is a travesty and a tragedy of geography.

If those people who would prefer not to see the UK broken-up (you know who we're talking about - those half-wits that think they can have it all) want an idea how to retain the UK as an entity, then there is a very simple way to achieve this. (Re)Join the Single Market and the Customs Union. This would leave us outside the EU, but inside the critical institutions that will allow our economy to stay afloat. Granted, it will permit freedom of movement once more, but it's time those fu*ckers were made to choose.

What means more to you? The retention of the UK, or the thing that most makes you wet your bed: EU immigration. Of course, one hopes that Brexiters will have noted - and are presumably happy with the fact - that inward immigration from the Indian sub-continent is now significantly out-pacing EU immigration - just as predicated, the twats.

This has been a Pissed-Off Political Broadcast on behalf of the 'Grass Says All Brexiters Are Stupid Ba*stards' Party.

*Broadcast ends with visuals of Hibs winning the 2016 Scottish Cup, and fans celebrating to the strains of Sunshine on Leith*

Edited to remove some of the swears, which might have been a bit OTT - even for me. I'm not taking them all out, mind.
 
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It's hard for me not to sympathise with so much of that, GH, and I'm still deep down pro-UK. But that lot down there are driving me towards doing the unthinkable and voting for independence.
 
My fear is that, having lost the Scottish vote, we in England are going to have a Conservative government in perpetuity. I just wish we could all just work together to make the whole of the Union a better place. Although it makes sense to me for Ireland to be United. Seems wrong to have borders in small countries. For one thing, Berwick would want to be in Scotland again and I’d have to use my passport to go to Morrisons for my shopping….And the Chain Bridge Honey Farm would struggle as half of their bees are in Scotland.
 
I voted remain in the E. U referendum but even I conceded not all brexiteers considered the freedom of movement issue with the same importance.

I did look at the numbers coming into the U. K before the vote as any independant minded citizen would do and the numbers coming to the U. K have risen fastly the past 20 years.

There were about 1 million e.u citizens the U.K.government didn't know were even in the country.

I guess stating that fact might make me a racist!

I actually went out with a Latvian lady for year. Now not even she could make me wet the bed haha.

I would still vote remain given a choice.

Overall all things considered remaining was definately the best choice.

The collateral damage this is doing to Ireland is not good.

I guess my overall point is not everything is as black and white, so to speak, as the extremes, (hardcore brexiteers or remainers), would have some of us believe.

There are loads of grey areas where only time will fully tell if some assumptions about leaving will be proved right or wrong.

Economically we have no growth but that was the case before covid, so no shock that post covid we are heading to a gigantic recession. The war in Ukraine has just knocked all that in with a hammer.

Maybe staying in the E. U and single market would have allowed us to get the economy back on track sooner, maybe it wouldn't.

Who the hell knows... That's my point.
 
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Cards on the table, it is no secret that I am no friend of the Conservative party but dislike and disdain have given way to utter disgust, not only towards this cretin of a PM but to all his sycophantic, money-grubbing cronies.

The Partygate report is clear: the PM is responsible for all the Covid rulebreaking.

While he and his mobs were partying, relatives of mine were watching family members die, unable to visit them.

I had to watch my wife struggle single-handedly to see her 93-going-on-to-94-year-old mother safely through the pandemic, being the only one allowed to visit her and having to do so in full PP, our daughter not allowed to visit her beloved Granma, probably her best pal in the whole world.

Betty finally succumbed to old age in August 2020, miraculously still untouched by the pandemic but her relatives couldn't attend her funeral.

Meantime, that mob had been partying, abusing staff, vomiting and spilling bevvy all over the shop, all the while telling us to stick to the rules or risk prosecution.

The PM says he's sorry, "humbled" and "lessons have been learned".

Pathetic.

He doesn't know what any of those concepts mean.

The whole thing is utterly sickening.
 
I feel sorry for the UK but as a nation, but you knew what you we're getting before the countless votes. Wait long enough and you'll have supporters saying how at least it's not Diane Abbott in charge - as if her bungling is somehow worse than the corruption and callousness you've been force-fed by Murdoch, lebedev and other oligarch-propangandising media. Even the panorama programme last night was to control today's news.Youve always the choice. If the Tories got rid of Johnson, they'd be voted in again.

The surprise is just how many people are surprised.
 
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HawkWing said:
I feel sorry for the UK but as a nation, but you knew what you we're getting before the countless votes. Wait long enough and you'll have supporters saying how at least it's not Diane Abbott in charge - as if her bungling is somehow worse than the corruption and callousness you've been force-fed by Murdoch, lebedev and other oligarch-propangandising media. Even the panorama programme last night was to control today's news.Youve always the choice. If the Tories got rid of Johnson, they'd be voted in again.

The surprise is just how many people are surprised.
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I'm not sure they're surprised, HW.

What really annoys me is how the BBC manage to roll out every other day, it seems, people who repeat the Johnson mantras "Move on", "Get on with the job" and "We've got bigger things to worry about".

These people must be Sun or Mail readers who can't see past a front page headline. They vote Tory because their papers tell them to.

Plenty of us knew what we were getting but plenty of us didn't vote for him/them, especially here in Scotland.
 
Desert Orchid said:
I'm not sure they're surprised, HW.

What really annoys me is how the BBC manage to roll out every other day, it seems, people who repeat the Johnson mantras "Move on", "Get on with the job" and "We've got bigger things to worry about".

These people must be Sun or Mail readers who can't see past a front page headline. They vote Tory because their papers tell them to.

Plenty of us knew what we were getting but plenty of us didn't vote for him/them, especially here in Scotland.
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Or perhaps they are chosen by the BBC for a reason. The Question Time audience is selected not random.
 
I've always assumed the BBC interview several people but merely present a snapshot of opposing views. If they interview 20 people in the street and 19 say Johnson should go and one says we should move on, they'll show on the news the latter and two of the former.
 
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