The UK Political Landscape

And just when you think it can’t get any worse Johnson alters the ministerial code so he can get away with lying. The day that parliament goes into recession…..No point writing to my MP; I’ll just get the same old Johnson supporting spiel. May write to the Speaker and ask how he can just do this without consulting parliament. Although that will also be a waste of time….
 
Even if Johnson manages to limp along for a few weeks, once the Tories have their arses handed to them in the 2x by-elections later this month, I predict the rules on a second-vote will quickly be changed to allow the party another go at ousting him.

And I am not at all concerned that replacing him increases the chances of the Tories winning there next GE. When you look at the list of potential replacements, they are - to a man/woman - charmless, gormless bas*tards with absolutely nothing like Johnson's (fake) "common touch". Whichever chinless cu*nt they wheel in after him, will get hammered out of sight - I have absolutely no doubt - and the entire party will hopefully be in the wilderness for years......or at least long enough to allow a Lab-LD coalition to introduce a long-overdue system of PR in the next Parliament.

There are also the first green-shoots of Brexit dissent on the right starting to appear, after Tobias Elwood's statement around re-joining the Single Market. Starmer is smart enough not to go anywhere near that right now, but under a Lab/LD Government, it would surely become an imperative.......perhaps even a condition of alliance.

The system is utterly fu*ked right now, but there are small reasons for optimism that it can be - if not wholly corrected - then at least be restored to something that is broadly functional. Long way to go, but I'm more hopeful than I was a few weeks ago.
 
Grasshopper said:
Even if Johnson manages to limp along for a few weeks, once the Tories have their arses handed to them in the 2x by-elections later this month, I predict the rules on a second-vote will quickly be changed to allow the party another go at ousting him.

And I am not at all concerned that replacing him increases the chances of the Tories winning there next GE. When you look at the list of potential replacements, they are - to a man/woman - charmless, gormless bas*tards with absolutely nothing like Johnson's (fake) "common touch". Whichever chinless cu*nt they wheel in after him, will get hammered out of sight - I have absolutely no doubt - and the entire party will hopefully be in the wilderness for years......or at least long enough to allow a Lab-LD coalition to introduce a long-overdue system of PR in the next Parliament.

There are also the first green-shoots of Brexit dissent on the right starting to appear, after Tobias Elwood's statement around re-joining the Single Market. Starmer is smart enough not to go anywhere near that right now, but under a Lab/LD Government, it would surely become an imperative.......perhaps even a condition of alliance.

The system is utterly fu*ked right now, but there are small reasons for optimism that it can be - if not wholly corrected - then at least be restored to something that is broadly functional. Long way to go, but I'm more hopeful than I was a few weeks ago.
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:thumbsup:
 
I'm still struggling to see why someone hasn't picked up a £10k fine for organising the illegal events. If Johnson still thinks that he did nothing wrong he should have appealed his fine and laid the facts out publicly. Following that he should have gone to the country...as long as the country was Rwanda.
 
The thing that I have learned most recently is that these bastards are genuinely in it for themselves. At least with Thatcher’s lot, you were aware of a politician’s sense of duty, however misguided it might have been. These cvnts are quite blatantly rewarding their donor friends - awarding of Covid-related contracts - and rewarding themselves as the Brexit economy falls to the floor. The more worrying issue is that they can only continue to make themselves richer if they maintain their grip on power. Them getting voted out at the next GE is not a foregone, with Johnson, or without. They have already awarded themselves 13 more seats, due to boundary changes and their control of the Electoral Commission; and will introduce voter ID to tackle a problem that doesn’t exist, but will put poorer voters (Labour supporters) off voting.

We live in very worrying times.
 
On "Politics Live" earlier part of the discussion touched on the Tory manifesto pledge of 40 new hospitals. It was pointed out to the Tory M P that 3 independent health organisations had said that the most that could be built by the target date was, err, ONE!! She maintained that the govt was on target to meet the 40 pledge!!! Worrying times indeed! I think Bevin erred on the generous side with his "worse than vermin"comment.
 
Len Madeiros said:
The thing that I have learned most recently is that these bastards are genuinely in it for themselves. At least with Thatcher’s lot, you were aware of a politician’s sense of duty, however misguided it might have been. These cvnts are quite blatantly rewarding their donor friends - awarding of Covid-related contracts - and rewarding themselves as the Brexit economy falls to the floor. The more worrying issue is that they can only continue to make themselves richer if they maintain their grip on power. Them getting voted out at the next GE is not a foregone, with Johnson, or without. They have already awarded themselves 13 more seats, due to boundary changes and their control of the Electoral Commission; and will introduce voter ID to tackle a problem that doesn’t exist, but will put poorer voters (Labour supporters) off voting.

We live in very worrying times.
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Geez, Len, it's taken you a while!

This self-serving stuff goes back to pre-Cameron. It's just got an awful lot worse under the current clown. I thought maybe May was just another misguided Tory so I could make excuses for her but the current lot are inveterate and invertebrate liars, cheats and thieves.

I think it should be public knowledge how much each Tory MP's personal wealth has increased since Cameron took over. The really moneyed ones have loads of investment in the energy companies as well as other hugely profitable outfits. The wealth of some of them is obscene.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Geez, Len, it's taken you a while!

This self-serving stuff goes back to pre-Cameron. It's just got an awful lot worse under the current clown. I thought maybe May was just another misguided Tory so I could make excuses for her but the current lot are inveterate and invertebrate liars, cheats and thieves.

I think it should be public knowledge how much each Tory MP's personal wealth has increased since Cameron took over. The really moneyed ones have loads of investment in the energy companies as well as other hugely profitable outfits. The wealth of some of them is obscene.
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I’d forgotten about this particular forum, having last used it a few years ago, DO! I usually vent on another forum or Facebook.

Yes, you’re right that it started with Cameron, and even he was so blatant when out of office. But this lot, in office, are utter thieves and crooks. I genuinely despise the cvnts. They are criminals in public office, but the police never arrest the government, right?
 
Yes, you’re right that it started with Cameron, and even he was so blatant when out of office. But this lot, in office, are utter thieves and crooks. I genuinely despise the cvnts. They are criminals in public office, but the police never arrest the government, right?
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I have been trying to explain this to people for several years now but they are slowly realising what is happening.

Brexit was about the already filthy rich avoiding tax and a campaign to destroy OUR human rights.
 
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I have just been listening to Sturgeon today, complaining young people have been robbed of their opportunity to travel and work in Europe, and vise versa with E.U citizens coming here.

E.U. citizens can still come over to England if they can prove they earn at least 26K a year, as far as I understand it.

This shouldn't be a problem for upper middle class employers and people in the south of England who through their companies are so desperately in need of them for cheap and exploitative Labour down in London. Or the Michael O Leary type Irish billionaire who is so badly struggling to run his airline business...

Crikey, people are really getting in a pickle over this issue aren't they...

Fwiw, Londons population is running at 10 million going on 11 million people now, it was overcrowded in the 1990s and it was 6 or 7 million then.

People getting traumatised because they might have to pay a bit more wages to staff and not do a P&O ferry ownership job on the working classes.

As for Scotland, well I guess the sooner they get their utopian panacea of joining the E.U the better.

Be interesting to see if the next potential Labour government have the guts to see through the E.U referendum result or listen to the serial cry baby's.
 
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Understand or agree, Wals?

I am perhaps guilty of over doing it on the coffee this morning!

I guess my point on the freedom of movement issue is that when we had the referendum and voted to leave things were not going to be indentically the same with regards to freedom of movement.

People can still work in Europe and Vice Versa.

That is/was my point.
 
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Marb said:
Understand or agree, Wals?

I am perhaps guilty of over doing it on the coffee this morning!

I guess my point on the freedom of movement issue is that when we had the referendum and voted to leave things were not going to be indentically the same with regards to freedom of movement.

People can still work in Europe and Vice Versa.

That is/was my point.
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Your point is horse-sh*it.

To clarify.

"We" didn't vote to Leave the EU. England did - dragging Scotland out against its wishes.
 
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Yes a majority in Scotland voted to remain in the E.U referendum, with the only problem being the same Scotland voted to remain in the U.K in your last independance referendum which means you were legally binded by the E.U referendum result undertaken by the U.K.

I can understand Scots anger though.

Politics, referendums and the law of the land can clearly really suck sometimes.

If I were Keir Starmer I'd allow you guys another referendum, while keeping the rest of us to the E.U referendum result.

I think that's the fairest way, as opposed to us all having another E.U referendum whereby Scotland can acquire their own independance anyway, (if they get their own tailor made second Independance referendum), which they should now be granted.

Once you lot are gone from the U.K I don't think you would need to spend so much time telling everyone else what they should do.
 
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The principal argument of the 2014 IndyRef 'No' campaign (i.e. that which opposed independence) was that Scotland would exit the EU by default if independence was gained. This was the over-riding concern of a majority of Scots (consult any poll you like), and basically swung the vote in favour of the status quo. It is therefore doubly-sickening that it was English votes in 2016, which conspired to bring about our exit from the EU.

I don't expect "fair" - I am merely calling out your erroneous assertion that it was the communal "we" that voted for Brexit.

It's also worth stating that the EU referendum itself was not "legally-binding", as you assert - it was an advisory referendum only (though politicking quickly overtook matters). It is established fact that if the EU referendum had been legally-binding, it would have been invalidated by the courts due to multiple failures of due-process........another sickening element of this entire farce.

Your last sentence betrays your ignorance. Far from Scotland "telling everyone else what they should do", Brexit is a perfect metaphor for Scotland's absolute impotence in this alleged Union-of-Equals.

We can agree on one thing though. I want us to be gone from the UK, just as much as you do.
 
No I like Scottish people the ones I have met have been very nice.

I would like you to stay in an ideal panacea like utopian paradise but clearly there is so much ill feeling that out of the goodness of my heart I would allow you another referendum so that people like you could campaign for what you want.

If the U.K government had held the e.u referendum vote under the pretence that it was only advisory, well there wouldn't really be a point in having a referendum. I'm afraid this is where people like me and those like you and Gina Miller share some disagreement.

If Scotland gets its next independance referendum and you get your leave majority vote will you be arguing that the result is only advisory?
 
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But it was only advisory. Also N Ireland didn’t vote to leave the EU and our project fear protestation of ‘what about Ireland’ fell on deaf ears.
 
Just to say my above posts don't mean I am supporting the Tories or supportive of what they're are doing.

Nor do they have anything specifically to do with Northern Ireland or the Island or Ireland, (although I guess the links to the single market might mean they are linked which I accept). I was just trying to say what I believe about freedom of movement.

Its not all bad either I have friends in London who are married to European citizens..It's just the numbers of people this one small Island can take..anyone who came here before or after Brexit will be treat by me like any other human being in this country with the same rights as me or anyone else.

Leaving the E.U was always going to cause trouble in Ireland and that's a real shame. It's probably the reason I voted to remain.

But I am not one dimensional.

If I agree about 3/5 ths of a political argument it doesn't necessarily mean I can't assess the other 2/5ths of the overall argument in a different way.
 
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