The 'Will Win' Thread (Copy)

  • Thread starter Thread starter SlimChance
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To be honest Kalkir is pretty obvious without the trends. He'll almost certainly go to the County (I'm pretty sure Renetti is the number one for the Coral), and I reinvested some of what I laid back last week on both. It'd be only right and proper that he wins it anyway given Slim's legendary recent advice.

With regards narrowingthefield's simple analysis, the profiling of horses that have won the Martin Pipe with is revealing if you use those stats and dig deeper to find the right one and as far ahead of time as practically possible. You're looking for a novice hurdler that's national hunt bred (probably a very good bumper horse last season), or equivalent previous season form from the french provinces, who looks like a quick improver, and is likely to get the right mark given this is a 0-145 handicap. It will have been campaigned extremely carefully this season so it's not properly exposed and gets the right mark for the race if it's a bumper horse. Or it's an ex-French improver with size and scope that has started from a mark that they can carefully control. You're not necessarily looking for a horse that's won yet this season, and most likely it's hurdles form is far behind what it achieved in bumpers. But it will win before the Festival, probably held up, and only doing enough to win on the line.

Nambour is an obvious one for race at the moment based on reading form, plus what the current market says, but whilst I think it's very possible he'll contest the race, I'm not sure he's the right type or will even be the stables best chance. I wouldn't totally discount him though if he gets in light. The other one the market says is Petit Mouchoir. You can make a case for him, but I wouldn't be rushing to back him because much will depend on the handicappers reading of his run behind Long Dog when he gets a mark. A literal view would probably see him being allocated 145 or 146 plus whatever the British handicapper decides to give him in addition. It's a 0-145 so he may not get in and could end up in the Coral Cup instead. The possibility remains though that he runs like a pig next time and he allocates him 141-143 which would probably see the British handicapper then allocating him 144 or 145 for the Festival. I'll wait to see what happens because ironically his price is likely to get bigger at the same time as being sure of getting the run. None of the other Mullins horses quoted interest me because they look too exposed, but I don't discount re-visiting them.

On the watchlist at the moment are Stone Hard and Pylonthepressure, who both have the hallmarks of already being plotted for a race like this. I'm also waiting to see the mark Up For Review gets as he is also a likely type. There are also a couple more that I'm watching out for next time who could yet emerge and fit the bill. In total though I reckon outside Nambour there are only 5 genuine possibilities that he could run in the race. Only two or three of them are really looking like they could possibly get a generous mark when compared to their bumper form though.

Anyway in the spirit of this thread, this is long-winded way of saying I'm absolutely convinced Mullins is lining up hard to win all three races. So I'm suggesting a 'Will Win' e/w double on Kalkir for the County Hurdle (20/1) and Renetti for the Coral Cup (25/1). I've also taken single prices both win and e/w. I'll be adding the winner of the Martin Pipe Conditionals as a further single, the doubles and a treble. And just to remove any ambiguity, the 'Will Win' basis of my post is on an e/w basis, not win singles.
 
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The other one the market says is Petit Mouchoir. You can make a case for him, but I wouldn't be rushing to back him because much will depend on the handicappers reading of his run behind Long Dog when he gets a mark. A literal view would probably see him being allocated 145 or 146 plus whatever the British handicapper decides to give him in addition. It's a 0-145 so he may not get in and could end up in the Coral Cup instead. The possibility remains though that he runs like a pig next time and he allocates him 141-143 which would probably see the British handicapper then allocating him 144 or 145 for the Festival. I'll wait to see what happens because ironically his price is likely to get bigger at the same time as being sure of getting the run. None of the other Mullins horses quoted interest me because they look too exposed, but I don't discount re-visiting them.
Petit Mouchoir is quoted as being on 145 in the RP. He's entered in the Grade 2 at Leopardstown on Sunday. I agree that Nambour is more likely to get in. Mullins was quoted as saying that something was amiss the last time and they think they've fixed it but I doubt he'd only fire one arrow.
 
the county is a very strongly run race usually..a whole different ball game to what Kalkir faced on sunday..and he was positioned well to win on sunday
It was EC, and my belief is that a strongly run race would have seen him win, so we've taken different reads from the race. I also think Willie expected a strongly run race. I also think they thought they had a horse that's much better than his mark and they expected him to win. The way the race was run absolutely suited to the winner and played to his strengths and the opposite is true of Kalkir yet he still finished second. The benefit of course is that Kalkir won't go up quite as much as he would have done for Cheltenham and he'll be better treated than they expected.
 
Petit Mouchoir is quoted as being on 145 in the RP. He's entered in the Grade 2 at Leopardstown on Sunday. I agree that Nambour is more likely to get in. Mullins was quoted as saying that something was amiss the last time and they think they've fixed it but I doubt he'd only fire one arrow.

Sunday's run with Petit Mouchoir will make Festival intentions a little clearer. My view is he'll be out with the washing to try and convince the handicapper to give him a mark in the low 140's. If not and he runs well he won't get in and we can strike him off.
 
The "Will Win" thread
aka "Location, Location, Location"
aka "Ante Post Betting on the Cheltenham Handicaps"

A legendary thread, in whatever guise :D
 
To be honest Kalkir is pretty obvious without the trends. He'll almost certainly go to the County (I'm pretty sure Renetti is the number one for the Coral), and I reinvested some of what I laid back last week on both. It'd be only right and proper that he wins it anyway given Slim's legendary recent advice.

With regards narrowingthefield's simple analysis, the profiling of horses that have won the Martin Pipe with is revealing if you use those stats and dig deeper to find the right one and as far ahead of time as practically possible. You're looking for a novice hurdler that's national hunt bred (probably a very good bumper horse last season), or equivalent previous season form from the french provinces, who looks like a quick improver, and is likely to get the right mark given this is a 0-145 handicap. It will have been campaigned extremely carefully this season so it's not properly exposed and gets the right mark for the race if it's a bumper horse. Or it's an ex-French improver with size and scope that has started from a mark that they can carefully control. You're not necessarily looking for a horse that's won yet this season, and most likely it's hurdles form is far behind what it achieved in bumpers. But it will win before the Festival, probably held up, and only doing enough to win on the line.

Nambour is an obvious one for race at the moment based on reading form, plus what the current market says, but whilst I think it's very possible he'll contest the race, I'm not sure he's the right type or will even be the stables best chance. I wouldn't totally discount him though if he gets in light. The other one the market says is Petit Mouchoir. You can make a case for him, but I wouldn't be rushing to back him because much will depend on the handicappers reading of his run behind Long Dog when he gets a mark. A literal view would probably see him being allocated 145 or 146 plus whatever the British handicapper decides to give him in addition. It's a 0-145 so he may not get in and could end up in the Coral Cup instead. The possibility remains though that he runs like a pig next time and he allocates him 141-143 which would probably see the British handicapper then allocating him 144 or 145 for the Festival. I'll wait to see what happens because ironically his price is likely to get bigger at the same time as being sure of getting the run. None of the other Mullins horses quoted interest me because they look too exposed, but I don't discount re-visiting them.

On the watchlist at the moment are Stone Hard and Pylonthepressure, who both have the hallmarks of already being plotted for a race like this. I'm also waiting to see the mark Up For Review gets as he is also a likely type. There are also a couple more that I'm watching out for next time who could yet emerge and fit the bill. In total though I reckon outside Nambour there are only 5 genuine possibilities that he could run in the race. Only two or three of them are really looking like they could possibly get a generous mark when compared to their bumper form though.

Anyway in the spirit of this thread, this is long-winded way of saying I'm absolutely convinced Mullins is lining up hard to win all three races. So I'm suggesting a 'Will Win' e/w double on Kalkir for the County Hurdle (20/1) and Renetti for the Coral Cup (25/1). I've also taken single prices both win and e/w. I'll be adding the winner of the Martin Pipe Conditionals as a further single, the doubles and a treble. And just to remove any ambiguity, the 'Will Win' basis of my post is on an e/w basis, not win singles.

Your reading of situations is very close to my brother's.

However, I think Sunday was Kalkir's big day and his County horse, if it ran there, will have been down the park.
 
Agreed.

I particularly like the guessing bits.
I realised it was highly likely I'd get this kind of response, and a lot more. I can't wait for Slim to post after I put this on his thread. :lol:

I stand by every word for the bets suggested though.
 
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Gowran Park 3.45
Marinero

Goeran Park 4.15
New Kid In Town

Will Win e/w double.

If anyone posts any bollocks complaining about e/w bets than I'm not posting during the flat season.
 
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Dundalk 8.30

Deeds Not Words

This will be smashed before the prices dry on the bookmakers pages.
 
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Dundalk 8.30

Deeds Not Words

This will be smashed before the prices dry on the bookmakers pages.


what is the reason for the other stable runner Slim?

my view of DNW is that he is a 6f horse..or one that wouldn't want a 7f race race run at at a proper lick..that last run was a slowly run affair for instance....the other stable runner your pal tal...whenever it runs at 7f seems to make the pace...that would be ok if it were only one that may do so..could dicate a slow one. Rattling Jewel is a front runner at 7f out of the rest of them. Will depend what RJ does pace wise here that could affect DNW?

or have they just arranged for YPT to set a steady one to set race up for DNW
 
Or it goes off like a scalded cat pulling Rattling Jewel with it, under the assumption that most of the others follow so they don't get too far behind. Kevin Manning is on the Bolger horse so I'd doubt he'd get sucked in, and neither would Billy Lee. I'd say you're probably right and Your Pal Tal goes to the front and pulls Slims selection through from the two outside gates and then slows it down, then Deeds Not Words can use his speed in the last furlong.

McGuigan and Captain Cullen look the dangers to me. McGuigan is on a handy mark at the trip he's performed best at, and the 7lb's coming off Captain Cullen's back looks useful and puts him on a winning mark. For Deeds Not Words to be 2's and backed suggests they have more horse than the formbook says.

Either way the market says Slim is right, because there's some blue appearing.
 
what is the reason for the other stable runner Slim?

my view of DNW is that he is a 6f horse..or one that wouldn't want a 7f race race run at at a proper lick..that last run was a slowly run affair for instance....the other stable runner your pal tal...whenever it runs at 7f seems to make the pace...that would be ok if it were only one that may do so..could dicate a slow one. Rattling Jewel is a front runner at 7f out of the rest of them. Will depend what RJ does pace wise here that could affect DNW?

or have they just arranged for YPT to set a steady one to set race up for DNW

I don't have the answer to that to be honest. Anyone that took the 9/2 could look to trade out at 7/4.
 
Or it goes off like a scalded cat pulling Rattling Jewel with it, under the assumption that most of the others follow so they don't get too far behind. Kevin Manning is on the Bolger horse so I'd doubt he'd get sucked in, and neither would Billy Lee. I'd say you're probably right and Your Pal Tal goes to the front and pulls Slims selection through from the two outside gates and then slows it down, then Deeds Not Words can use his speed in the last furlong.

McGuigan and Captain Cullen look the dangers to me. McGuigan is on a handy mark at the trip he's performed best at, and the 7lb's coming off Captain Cullen's back looks useful and puts him on a winning mark. For Deeds Not Words to be 2's and backed suggests they have more horse than the formbook says.

Either way the market says Slim is right, because there's some blue appearing.

There is no doubt I was right. It was 9/2 last night.
 
I missed it unfortunately Slim. Didn't log in and see it until this afternoon and the value has gone, otherwise I'd have been in. Good luck though guys.
 
I missed it unfortunately Slim. Didn't log in and see it until this afternoon and the value has gone, otherwise I'd have been in. Good luck though guys.

No worries. I posted before any prices were available so everyone had a fair chance to get on. I can't get on with any of the firms I knew would price it so someone may as well nick the price.
 
Probably not the place for this - and I can't guarantee a "will win" but have the bookies fooked up big time pricing up the FA Trophy tonight ?.

I am either missing something or the bookies think Cheltenham are playing Oxford UNITED.

Cheltenham are superb at the top of the National League and Oxford CITY are one league below. Cheltenham are at home and yet are over 2/1 with Oxford favourites at odds on :confused:

I've invested at 12/5.

Edit: Just found out that Cheltnham played their youth team in the first leg - they still drew 2-2 away. Will they tonight though ?

Tempers enthusiasm somewhat still.
 
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Cheltenham are playing a lot of kids as their senior players need to win the Vanarama League to regain promotion to the Football League (only one automatic promotion)
 
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