Tottenham Riot

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Bar the Bull said:
The borough of Wandsworth is over 75% white. I would be amazed if Wandsworth town had more than 30% of non-white people. It is a very "white" area for south London.
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The borough of Wandsworth is misleading - it includes Putney which is very middle class (and white), and hence Putney is in the peculiar position of having very low council tax (originally based on Wandsworth).

Wandsworth Town (which is a small part of actual Wandsworth) is white, and middle class, but centres around a bizarrely small area - Old York Road and the Tonsleys.

The rest of Wandsworth, which is much bigger, think the area all around the high street stretching a bit in all directions, is much more black and some minorities, and is the polar opposite to Wandsworth Town. The area around southside shopping centre is not safe, and is predominantly black.

Looking at figures for Wandsworth can be misleading, as the borough (and areas within actual Wandsworth) can never be analysed properly.
 
Rubbish. Its less "white" than most areas in south london.

I worked there for years and know the area well. Its also bang next the toilet estates bordering clapham junction.

i think posts on the demographics of london (i laughed out loud at white croydon...west croydon? thornton heath? Norbury?) which are complicated enough, should really just come from those that live there. Hamm has it about right

This bending over backwards to claim its "not really black yoof" is a fucking joke.
 
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I lived in London for 8 years, and Wandsworth for nearly four years.

I don't think it is a black area.

I am not making a comment about whether the crimes are committed by black or white; I have seen very little footage to be honest.
 
I've also lived in Wandsworth for quite some time, and Putney now. Have you ever been around Southside shopping centre?
 
clivex said:
i think posts on the demographics of london (i laughed out loud at white croydon...west croydon? thornton heath? Norbury?) which are complicated enough, should really just come from those that live there. Hamm has it about right

This bending over backwards to claim its "not really black yoof" is a fucking joke.
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Fair point. Had a quick look at demographic statistics (which can be misleading) and posted. More than happy to be told I'm wrong.

Do you think it is fundamentally about racial tensions, Clive? Strikes me as more to do with bored school-kids on their summer holidays from what I've seen.
 
@Hamm: I have, yes. Dog rough.

Listen it has bad enough areas, like most London regions. I did community work for Wandsworth council for years, and most of my visits were to houses around the Wandsworth town area for reasons of convenience. My impression was of vast swathes of middle-class, white areas very close to Wandsworth.

I haven't lived there since 2004, however. From 2005 to 2007, I was in Tooting. Which is more "ethnic".
 
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Do you think it is fundamentally about racial tensions, Clive?
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No. I think its about the fact that they "can get away with it". In much the same way as football riots went relatively unchallenged until there was a clamp down (i know..i was there)

However as many in london will tell you, there is a real arrogance about a certain section of society which, despite being failures in every sense of the word, believe that they are above the law. Its not exclusively black but is very much into a segment of that culture

There is a big backlash coming against those that are seen as lazy arrogant whiney and cosseted for far too long by leftish apologists (this is a big defeat for the left politically).

This is not based on colour at all. Just as not all football fans were hooligans, most hooligans were football fans (of a sort) This is more serious than that was but i still believe that most londoners are integrated enough to know that we are not talking about a uniform section of society based on colour but a segment within that society which is a problem. ( the burgeoning hard working and very enterprising african community that ive had soem recent work with will be absolutely hating this)

There is another issue here. I think the 80s riots were seen as a genuine reaction against areas that had fallen apart (dating back well before Thatcher) and certainly Brixton was an absolute shithole back then. they werent condoned but were more widely understood.

I have meetings in Clapham junction and Brixton tomorrow and believe me, these areas have had a helluva a lot of money thrown at them (Brixton is transformed)

This time around I think the only concession that im hearing out there is the use of rubber bullets rather than live ones
 
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I was watching newsnight last night, same issues came up. Young black people stopped and searched over frequently, and that, not to mention the tradional grievances (past/present) against the police was the foundation for my comments. They could be misplaced, or just I have not understood this fully yet.
 
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Clive
I agree with much of what you have said but I see it as a defeat for all of us (ultimately including the yobs) rather than just a defeat for the left.

Perversely both Hackney and Tottenham to a lesser degree are well placed to benefit from the job opportunities arising from the Olympic regneration and legacy. Thousand's of jobs both short and long term.
 
clivex said:
No. I think its about the fact that they "can get away with it". In much the same way as football riots went relatively unchallenged until there was a clamp down (i know..i was there)

However as many in london will tell you, there is a real arrogance about a certain section of society which, despite being failures in every sense of the word, believe that they are above the law. Its not exclusively black but is very much into a segment of that culture

There is a big backlash coming against those that are seen as lazy arrogant whiney and cosseted for far too long by leftish apologists (this is a big defeat for the left politically).

This is not based on colour at all. Just as not all football fans were hooligans, most hooligans were football fans (of a sort) This is more serious than that was but i still believe that most londoners are integrated enough to know that we are not talking about a uniform section of society based on colour but a segment within that society which is a problem. ( the burgeoning hard working and very enterprising african community that ive had soem recent work with will be absolutely hating this)
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This is pretty close to how I see it, but I don't think your point is made any stronger by bringing the 'left' into it. I think there are some foolish apologists (see Guardian editorial today for example) who would do better to have a reality check, but I think it would be wrong to say the left isn't on the whole condemning what's going on.
 
I think that Clive has hit the nail pretty closely on the head.

However, it is fair to say that although areas like Brixton have had money thrown at them, there have been swingeing (god I love that word) cuts to services and benefits in the UK recently. This is no excuse, but a cause, I believe.

Fair enough, Cameron has avoided the fate (for now) of Greece, the US, Ireland etc. The UK had a pretty hairy fiscal situation 18 months ago, and it is being addressed.

But I think this might be the price. You reap what you sow.
 
All the kids looked dressed nicely in new-looking tees, hoodies, and trainers. Probably a lot better in the shoes department after some of their raids, too. A couple of braindead young (white) girls were spoken to (hardly "interviewed") in Croydon and yeah, it was well good fun, right? They'd been given bottles of looted wine to drink, yeah, and they'd drunk it all night and yeah, they hoped that tonight would go on because it was against them rich people, right, them Conservative thingies and that (overlooking the Asian-owned stores they'd looted), and it served them right, yeah? And then they'd be given more bottles of free booze - wickid, yeah?
 
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Rioting reached us here in Gloucester last night. Police helicopter was flying over my house for ages and,my colleague had six horses in riot gear outside her house as well as police on foot. They must have been expecting trouble as Gloucestershire Constabulary doesn't have a mounted division. Not sure what damage has been done yet.
 
I got back to Putney around 10.30 last night, and couldn't believe the atmosphere. There were around 40 police on the high street, and very few people - eerie. Sirens going off quite a lot, and some phone shops smashed into.
 
I settled down for an entertaining night of schadenfreude, to watch the looting and pillaging on sky. Admittedly it was a bit early, but the best moment of the evening was a reporter standing outside Jessops which had had its window broken and one or two bits and bobs knicked. The reporter, trying hard to recreate the reports of Aernout Van Lynden, who used to appear like a frightened rabbit regularly on sky news when the "allies" were freeing Kuwait and bombs and missiles blasting everywhere, directed the cameraman to a few people crossing the road a little bit up from him with hints that he was in danger. Then decided he might end up in court himself and spent the rest of his time saying they were probably just people going home and getting on about their normal business.
 
The make-up of the 'youth gangs' seems to extend to burly bald men in their late 30s and some overweight women, rather giving the lie to this being disappointed young men desperate for work expressing their anger. Or perhaps Manchester ages the young more rapidly?

Nice to see a little group of Manchester lads turning up for entirely voluntary clearing-up work this morning, to the gratitude of shop owners.

As for the murder of the three Asian lads, smashed down by a car seemingly aimed at them, the father of one displayed not only a first-class grasp of English which put the brain-free yobs to shame, but enormous calm and dignity in the face of a dreadful event. No sobbing and screaming for justice, no rabble-rousing - just the opposite. If anyone represented the part of society which is the antithesis of what the gangs have shown, it was him. Given the family name, he is most likely Muslim, too, and probably of Pakistani origin. We should be proud to have people like him in our communities.
 
Scum are scum, regardless of coloour. Christ knows where you start sorting this mess out. Parents haven't been mentioned once from what I can see in this thread, but you have to think a significant portion of blame lies with them in the fact they have let their offspring grow up doing what the feck they like mostly, with no recourse. They have no respect fo the fabric of society, and it's all about me, me, and my best mate, me. They give off an attitude of not giving a rat's arse about anyone or anything. Never look remotely interested in getting of their arse and trying to find something resembling a job, but will bleat at every opportunity given that they are victimised and misunderstood. You want to be big hard boys with a threatening attitude? Round them up drop them off in Afghanistan and let's see how quickly they start crying and pissing themselves.
 
National Service for early school leavers who arent working.

I firmly believe that these people have never been made stick at something, or do something they havent wanted to. They have had it so easy in life that they have no direction or drive. They are only left with causing trouble as an outlet for their existence. National service the lot of them, run them into the ground. See who the hard ones are then.
 
Completely agree with Dave and Del - these are for the most part young people without focus, ambition, realistic or realisable goals, and probably the initial mob came from shitty estates and even shittier families, who've probably been living courtesy of the State's handouts for generations, and believe in being kept for life, untouched because of the sickening sentimentality of political correctness. But that's to generalise too much - the guys helping out with the looting in Liverpool and Manchester are much older and I see they've just prosecuted a black man who is a primary school teacher! What a grand role model he is. So while the majority who kicked things off are feckless layabouts, not all were by any means.

Just had a lunch in my local greasy spoon, owned and run by a Turkish family. They said that 90% of the smaller businesses in Tottenham are Turkish owned and that, as the police ran away from the mob, the Turks had got together and ran at it - these are people who aren't afraid of taking on the enemy head on, and the enemy turned its be-jeaned tail and was on its toes smartish. Honest to God, what sort of message do we send to the world when our own police is more farce than force?
 
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Ah well, bish bash bosh won't do, now will it.

Not having exactly met his darkness, but people do say the Devil finds work for idle hands.

About time the comfy classes noticed the unworking poor.

I'll say no more except to add ... nothing.
 
Soary Stars said:
Ah well, bish bash bosh won't do, now will it.

Not having exactly met his darkness, but people do say the Devil finds work for idle hands.

About time the comfy classes noticed the unworking poor.

I'll say no more except to add ... nothing.
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Sounds a bit like an apologia.

Most of them can't be arsed either to work or to fit themselves for it.
 
The unworking poor? You're avinalarf! The 'unworking' poor can draw benefits as well as get housed without having to pay a mortgage or take any responsibility for the upkeep of their flats/houses. You want to see poor, take a look at pensioners, SS, or the desperate slums of any amount of countries.

Poor people, really poor people, especially those from the hard-working mining communities, always kept their homes spotless and their kids were given a moral compass to live by. Families didn't sit on their arses watching Sky Sports, courtesy of the State, bemoaning the fact that they could only afford a 3-year old car and not a top-of-the-range SUV, unless they nicked it.

And I'm incredibly offended by your remark about 'comfy classes' - so 1980s - as if the people who've lost their own, personal businesses are somehow a sneering upperclass. If you think the Indian shop owners who've lost all somehow represent your idea of that, you are adrift in a world of your own. These trashy mobs destroyed hundreds of JOBS, by the way, on which paying bills, keeping up mortgages, feeding kids depended. Yet somehow you overlook that aspect very conveniently. How dare you seem to suggest that it's okay for this trash to ruin the working lives of hundreds of people, let alone burn out all of their life's possessions and homes?

If their hands were so idle, they could've all chipped in cleaning up their filthy little hovels and stop moaning about how there's nothing to do by CREATING things to do, not always sitting around expecting everyone else to mollycoddle them. That they show no initiative or thinking ability says it all. I don't know what sort of schools they went to, but they sure didn't inspire the slightest grain of self-reliance in any of these pathetic louts.
 
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