World Cup Group D

an capall said:
Panelists on RTE was comparing the 'animal factor' and 'hunger' of both teams, making the point that Urugay players would 'kill their grannies' to win that game, England not so much.

Dunphy added: "Look at the two managers. Roy Hodgson looks like he's a junior civil servant. The other fella looks like he has been down a few back allies."
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yeah the way a manager "looks" makes all the difference of course

What a prick. I suppose Everton better sack Martinez right now because he looks like a 12 year old and arsenal wenger because he "looks" like a professor.

That's analysis is it?
 
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You need to look at England's so called 'big' names.
Rooney, scored a tap in, missed a sitter with his head from half a yard and also another sitter from 6 yards. Should have been the easiest hat trick of his career.
Gerrard, woeful, pushed off the ball by Suarez first half, then powder puff tackle in the lead up to the 1st goal before the assist for the winner.

The younger lads are meant to look up to those two clowns!
 
clivex said:
yeah the way a manager "looks" makes all the difference of course

What a prick. I suppose Everton better sack Martinez right now because he looks like a 12 year old and arsenal wenger because he "looks" like a professor.

That's analysis is it?
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Some people speak in images clivex. Do try to keep up.
 
Tiggers, your criticism of Gerard and, particularly, Rooney on the basis of last night`s performance is IMHO ridiculous...the header a sitter? Utter nonsense.
 
But Waddle was one of those flair players too.

How many years have I been saying on here that English players don't have it. It is the good imports that make the Premiership what it is in terms of quality. When big Alonso left Liverpool he said English players are, I believe the term he used was, "tactically illiterate".

Gordon Strachan once said one of the great Italian managers (Maldini, maybe?) said if you need to tell a player the same thing three times you need to get rid of him no matter how talented. That's the attitude in a lot of the more successful nations.

Watching some of the off-the-ball movement of some of the better teams is eye-opening. The great thing is that the majority of the TV shots are from longer range than we are used to so we're getting to see the bigger picture. UK TV is obsessed with close-ups of players swearing, dissenting and gobbing.

UK football (it happens up here too) is tabloid football. The stuff played by the top international teams is broadsheet.

How's that for an image, An?
 
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tiggers1972 said:
You need to look at England's so called 'big' names.
Rooney, scored a tap in, missed a sitter with his head from half a yard and also another sitter from 6 yards. Should have been the easiest hat trick of his career.
Gerrard, woeful, pushed off the ball by Suarez first half, then powder puff tackle in the lead up to the 1st goal before the assist for the winner.

The younger lads are meant to look up to those two clowns!
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Harsh on Rooney. He had a tap in because he put himself in that position. He was involved at the start of that move back in the left back position. Possibly could have done better with the header, think he jumped a bit early. Tried to make amends by arching his back. I think I know the other chance you're talking about and i think it's a reach to call it a sitter.
 
frontrunner said:
I thought Chris Waddle summed up England pretty well , he did get a bit emotion but hit a few nails on the head .

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02191f7
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Yep sums it up pretty well but too much money in Premiership to change that set up now and frankly it is more important than the national team, every time England go out there is talk of making change but once the league kicks off its all forgotten.

Felt for Cahill the one top defender in a shambles of a defence, I thought Hart was poor again but a bit like the right back position who else is there?

Suarez as ever the class act and the slightly better team won.
 
hezz said:
Harsh on Rooney. He had a tap in because he put himself in that position. He was involved at the start of that move back in the left back position. Possibly could have done better with the header, think he jumped a bit early. Tried to make amends by arching his back. I think I know the other chance you're talking about and i think it's a reach to call it a sitter.
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It was a sitter Hezz, his opposite number would not have missed it
 
It wasn't a sitter, it would have been if he was taller. He may have jumped a trifle early but otherwise not sure what he could have done.

Gerrard actually played well I thought, his passes gave England momentum.

Henderson is a coward, as put by BTB - everytime he got the ball he tried to give the responsibility to do something with it to someone else. I hate watching players like that. Suarez takes responsibility, Henderson avoids it.

Rooney played well.

Sterling was dreadful but that can happen. Didn't get into any rhythm.

Welbeck being in the team (let alone the squad) continued to amaze me. He is pointless. He doesn't score (I genuinely prefer Bendtner to him as a backup 'striker'). He doesn't create. He couldn't do his defensive duties v Italy. He runs around like a headless chicken, but not even as much as people think.

It's selections like him and Henderson that cost England. I would add Jagielka but I don't know, Terry aside, who would have been better. The cupboard is bare at centre half.
 
I originally figured that the pace of Sterling and Sturridge would have opposing defences struggling, but England have basically played this tournament with no midfield. Gerrard sits too deep these days, and there was a yawning gap between him, and Wellbeck/Rooney playing off Sturridge, which allowed Italy and Uruguay to dominate the centre of the pitch, and own most of the useful possession.

Whilst itooks tactically naive with the benefit of hindsight, I think it was legit for Hodgson to at least try something a bit different.
 
Hamm said:
It wasn't a sitter, it would have been if he was taller. He may have jumped a trifle early but otherwise not sure what he could have done.

Gerrard actually played well I thought, his passes gave England momentum.

Henderson is a coward, as put by BTB - everytime he got the ball he tried to give the responsibility to do something with it to someone else. I hate watching players like that. Suarez takes responsibility, Henderson avoids it.

Rooney played well.

Sterling was dreadful but that can happen. Didn't get into any rhythm.

Welbeck being in the team (let alone the squad) continued to amaze me. He is pointless. He doesn't score (I genuinely prefer Bendtner to him as a backup 'striker'). He doesn't create. He couldn't do his defensive duties v Italy. He runs around like a headless chicken, but not even as much as people think.

It's selections like him and Henderson that cost England. I would add Jagielka but I don't know, Terry aside, who would have been better. The cupboard is bare at centre half.
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I was talkng about the shot from a yard out not the header
 
Bar the Bull said:
Henderson didn't want the ball all night. A cowardly performance. Gerrard wasn't good, in my opinion.
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Bar you are absolutely spot on. The first 15 minutes told you everything you needed to know about Jordan Henderson's character. Watch it again and you will see that everytime we had a throw in on the far side he is stood in the middle of the park in acres of space and doesn't shout, doesn't move towards the ball. At times he was even stood still and pointing for the person in possession to pass to someone else rather than make himself available. At the last tournament against Ukraine and went ballistic when he passed the ball back to Ashley Cole at left back and then turned away from him and sprinted forward, he did exactly the same to Baines last night although he didn't sprint this time, simply walked away from him and Baines had no option but to pass the ball back to Hart who booted aimlessly down field as there was no one else available.

The problem with this formation is it is supposed to be 4-2-3-1. In actual fact it is 4-2-0-4 with the four front players too far ahead of the midfield to allow us to keep the ball. I'm sick of watching Sterling, Sturridge, Welbeck and Lallana try to dribble down blind alleys and getting tackled and giving the ball away. The shape is awful. I just don't get why we continue to play players out of position like Welbeck and Rooney. Play proper wide men who know how to come back and support their full backs because they have been doing it all their lives. Trying to squeeze players into a formation is ridiculous we tried to do it for years with Gerrard, Lampard and the best central midfielder of his generation Paul Scholes. WHo missed out? Scholes - playing him on the left to accomodate two inferior players. If Zidane says Scholes was the best midfielder in the world, why couldn't the English manager see it!?! We are doing the same with Rooney now, although he was more central last night we couldn't get the ball to him nor could we get any support to him from midfield as there was Gerrard really deep and Henderson didn't want the ball. I'm not his biggest fan but it was crying out for Lampard in the middle of the park last night with his experience. I'm an Everton fan and love Barkley but he just wasn't ready for a game like that last night playing in that shape.

Oh, and sorry to go on but how Johnson is anywhere near an England shirt I will never know, yes he 'created' the goal, by pure fluke, but his defending is woeful, he never closes anyone down.

SOrry lads, rant over
:mad::mad:
 
And Hamm, you are right about Jags. As an Everton fan I love him, he aint an international centre half though. There is no one else. Chris Smalling shouldn't be playing in the premiership let alone the England team. Jones hasn't developed either. John Stones may be the man but he is unknown as yet. Cahill played well but that is the difference between a good centre back and the world class ones. He switched off for 10 seconds last night and we concede the winner, the rest of the game he was great but when it really mattered his mind had wandered.
 
Jakers said:
It was a sitter Hezz, his opposite number would not have missed it
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Suarez is on another level. Saying he would have scored doesn't mean it was a sitter. I wouldn't call his 2nd goal a sitter but I reckon a hell of a lot of top strikers wouldn't have scored. With him there seemed little doubt. The guy is ruthless.

As Euro pointed out earlier he was effectively the difference. All things considered, England have played twice and conceded 2 in both matches. You can't expect to win matches conceding 2 goals a match. Very few teams can do it. With the greatest respect to Cahill and Jagielka, they're not up to it at the top level. I really like Jagielka as a player but he's well below the very top. I was nervous for England whenever Baines had the ball. And Joe Hart doesn't give that commanding aura he once did a couple of seasons ago.

You can pick issues all over the park, but for me the defense have most to answer for. While Rooney wasn't his brilliant best, I thought he put in a very decent shift.
 
It was almost like nobody really new what their job was though. It is alright saying they front four are interchangeable but if they all pull out wide like or drop deep at the same time it means there was no one in the box for a cross or following up on the keeper from a shot. It hadn't time and time again in that second half when we changed the game. I much prefer it to be a bit more rigid so everyone knows their job, during the game swap round by all means but not constantly.
 
I never said Rooney played poorly I said he missed a sitter, a chance that you would really expect him to score from 9 times out of 10, he didn't and it happens, but it was a big moment in the game.
 
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Part time punter said:
Bar you are absolutely spot on. The first 15 minutes told you everything you needed to know about Jordan Henderson's character. Watch it again and you will see that everytime we had a throw in on the far side he is stood in the middle of the park in acres of space and doesn't shout, doesn't move towards the ball. At times he was even stood still and pointing for the person in possession to pass to someone else rather than make himself available.
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I rarely shout at the TV, but I did at Henderson last night.
 
Gamla Stan said:
I don't follow Premiership football anymore (but used to) and thought this was interesting:

https://twitter.com/StevenBebe/status/479741232068182017/photo/1

I know a few seasons ago (obviously biased), he was good enough to play for England and makes you wonder why he wasn't picked.
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Because teams are not picked by computers. And never will be.

Regatdless of shawcross's ability surely as in any walk of life putting any team together on the basis of numbers only is bonkers?
 
Desert Orchid said:
That was what I meant when I suggested he maybe shat it. You can see in slow motion he dips his shoulder away from the ball as if to avoid taking a sore one from a hard shot.

Gerrard isn't the same player who dragged Liverpool from 0-3 in Istanbul to an unforgettable triumph. He also turned his back on a shot earlier in the game (the ball deflected off the inside of his calf for a corner) then had the cheek to turn round and start shouting at the players around him. (I presume it was encouragement and not criticism but if you're going to lead by example you need to face up to the shot even if it means taking a sore one.)
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I wasn't suggesting that he ducked away from the ball deliberately - it was more a case of getting his angles wrong, being far too close to the near post and going down too early. If you watch Suarez, he didn't even look at the keeper, he's just hit it at the middle of the goal. A keeper should never let a goal in when it's hit at the middle of the goal IMO - especially from that angle. Compare what Hart did there to what he did when faced with Cavani from a similar angle - he did very well against Cavani, got his angles correct, stood up and spread himself resulting in Cavani having not much to aim at and he put it well wide.
 
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