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Ladbrokes World Hurdle - Build Up

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bruce_Savage
  • Start date Start date
Big Bucks vs Hurricane Fly over 2m4f - Who would win?

This is the hurdle race I would love to see at the moment. Nicholls has always said Big Bucks has the pace to compete in a champion and we know the Hurricane stays 2m4f.
 
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Dave Edwards come up with the 7lb TS & RPR guidline, it's excellent in showing strong and even run races which is what I've used in my assessment of Big Bucks post.

Not sure where you picked out that TS & RPR means fast times? I've not mentioned that in my post at all, but my theory was if you could run the sting out of Big Bucks earlier on and leave the last half mile where the horses are crawling on empty then surely this will be a task Big Bucks has never faced Hurdling? if he was able to accelerate then sustain his effort I'm sure he would win by up to 20 lengths easily, but we've never seen him asked that question?

I'd like him to struggle going into the final half mile against thorough stayers and want him to dig deep into the reserves and produce something we could all remember for the rest of our lives as he leaves his heart on soul on the track but untill we find the right candidates to produce this race he's always going to be turning in for home entering his strongest point of physical excertion
 
2m4f is always going to play into the Hurricane's hands. Both are exceptional though even if it is a race that will never happen.

As far as I'm concerned the stronger the pace the more likely he is to win. He is a very strong stayer, and has a turn of foot to boot. His vulnerability is that his temperament means that he never goes miles clear of his field, therefore, there is always a very small risk that he might get caught flat footed by a speedy rival coming from the back at the last minute. Scudamore performed this to perfection in the World Hurdle with Grands Crus but it still wasn't enough.
 
Zenyatta said:
2m4f is always going to play into the Hurricane's hands. Both are exceptional though even if it is a race that will never happen.
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It should though.

I think Big Bucks would surprise people. He's slightly underestimated cos he keeps beating average horses but he is a machine, no doubt. The Hurricane would have his work cut out I reckon although I would probably just make him favourite in a match.
 
Aragorn said:
It should though.

I think Big Bucks would surprise people. He's slightly underestimated cos he keeps beating average horses but he is a machine, no doubt. The Hurricane would have his work cut out I reckon although I would probably just make him favourite in a match.
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I think a lot would depend on the pace of the race. Big Buck's would probably require a suicidal pace right from the off to run the pace out of the Hurricane.
 
Big Buck's would win without too much effort. He wouldn't do it impressively, but when has he ever done that?
 
Hurricane Fly wouldn't have to come off the bridle. If connections thought Big Bucks could win a Grade 1 at 2m4, he would have ran in the Aintree Hurdle.
 
Hurricane Fly would put 10L between the pair, before you could get the words "flat spot" out of your mouth.
 
Maybe Punchestown could organize a match-course puts up 100 grand-connections put up the same amount.Winner takes it all.
 
I have to agree with katherine and so may others who won't hear of defeat.

Big Buck's may just be the best staying hurdler of all time.
 
Bruce_Savage said:
Big Bucks has never beaten a horse over hurdles who has gone on to win a Grade 1 next time.
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That's hardly surprising considering that he is a staying hurdler. There are few Grade 1 opportunities for such a horse, and Big Buck's runs in all of them. The fact that they can't beat him means it unsurprising that none have won a G1 next time.
 
There has been 239 Horses run since the 1st of Janauary 2009

There has been 18 winners

Of those 18 winners, 6 races were Grade 2 wins.

A Strike rate of 7.5%

-

A TRUE GREAT?
 
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Bruce
AFIAA, there are just 6 gd1/gd2 all-aged 3m+ hurdles run in a season, 2 in the North which BB has never contested.
Big Bucks has won all of the others in each of the past 3 seasons. which leaves little latitude for much else to feature.
Go figure.
 
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Now for the sake of Big Bucks reputation don't let me draw up with true greats likeKauto Star and Sea The Stars do.

It's funny how the public can be brainwashed by the notion of excellence, I suppose if you listen to The Morning Line long enough and you listen to commentators of Big Bucks races it will become apparant that you sub conciously build your own script at the hands of external semantic content that has about as much validity as a tin of cold air.

I'd advise everyone to go and dig a little deeper before using words such as great and all time best etc, you'd probably be surprised at how wrong you are.

Now lets saviour the 18 horses throughout Big Bucks reign who have managed to win another Hurdle race, those fantastic 18 attempts varying from 2m up to 4m, from Class 5 to Grade 2 it's a fantastic mark of respect to what a great champion we have...
 
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You got to be pulling our chain Bruce. You can go back as far as you like and name as many true champions as you like racing very rarely chalks up two truly great horses in pairs. Just think Arkle Mill House then Night Nurse Sea Peigeon Monksfield then take another leap to Kauto Star Denman.

So many very good horses have tried and failed to lower Big Buck's colours and when they afail they leave with their tails between there legs realising they face an impossible task.

NIcky Henderson when asked about Oscar Whisky's future said I suppose we'll step him up to 3 miles. Not I can't await to step him up to 3 miles which he would do if he didn't suspect he could be wasting his time.

Grand Crus is about as good as they come and no way would the Pipes hear of defeat and when Big Bucks cantered all over the top of him they immediatley said well that was a waste of time let's go chasing.

Not for one minute would they have even thought about chasing just now if he had he beaten Big Bucks.

He is extraordinary as McCoy put it after Newbury saying he had never felt so much power under him in all his year of riding. Lough Derg was so far in front of him he was concered the horse would take a lot out of himslef just catching up. He couldn't believe how easily he did and the over and above that went straight back into cruise control like he was out for an early morning stroll. You're no doubt a nice guy Bruce but I suggest if he can get AP McCoy excited like he was that day he truly must be something special then he's right and you're very very wrong.

The lack of opposition only exists because he so good make no mistake about that.

When Arkle hit his peak nothing turned up in the Gold Cup and the 3 that did were only there for the beer. That's just the way it is when you are head and shoulders above everything else. Trainer who may have gone the staying hurdles path with young horses simply don't as there's easier fish to fry.
 
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I'd say Big Bucks is pretty useful as a staying hurdler. I'd put him in the top handful of staying hurdlers I've seen in my lifetime. If that qualifies as great so be it... we'll even see if he can go right handed tomorrow ;-)
 
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