Ladbrokes World Hurdle - Build Up

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bruce_Savage
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Today was probably the most impressive i've seen Big Bucks.

They need to drop him back in trip if they're going to silence the doubters but personally I think he is one of the best NH horses this century.
 
Aragorn said:
I think he is one of the best NH horses this century.
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There is no evidence to back this statement up.

He has beaten Five Dream 8 Lengths, this is a horse who has won 5 times in 34 starts, two of those were Class 4 & Class 3 Novice chases and hasn't won since 24th October 2009.

I'm trying my hardest to give Big Bucks all the credit he deserves, but I can't make statements based on no evidence.
 
Big Bucks only does what he has to, (as he has at the top level for 14 successive races) so rating him by what he beats, and how far, is a pretty pointless exercise.
 
Bruce_Savage said:
There is no evidence to back this statement up.

He has beaten Five Dream 8 Lengths, this is a horse who has won 5 times in 34 starts, two of those were Class 4 & Class 3 Novice chases and hasn't won since 24th October 2009.

I'm trying my hardest to give Big Bucks all the credit he deserves, but I can't make statements based on no evidence.
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try rating him through Grand Crus..it make more sense to you then
 
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Bruce_Savage said:
There is no evidence to back this statement up.

He has beaten Five Dream 8 Lengths, this is a horse who has won 5 times in 34 starts, two of those were Class 4 & Class 3 Novice chases and hasn't won since 24th October 2009.

I'm trying my hardest to give Big Bucks all the credit he deserves, but I can't make statements based on no evidence.
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with two good yardsticks in Restless Harry and Dynaste well beaten there is plenty of evidence, maybe you should think about giving Five Dream who has now finished 2nd twice to Big Bucks some credit.
 
Bruce_Savage said:
Forum,

I would like someone to step forward and show me the evidence that Big Bucks is as great as you say?

I've listened, I've read, I've heard a lot of reguritated comments but what I'm looking for is someone to actually put a little bit of effort into their racing and confirm Big Bucks as one of the greatest horses in the National Hunt history.

Commentator A mentions "Big Bucks is a superstar, a once in a life time horse" at the end of his race, we listen to that and automatically it has a profound effect on our opinons. What would happen if you put Big Bucks commentary over a Seller at Ayr, we'd probably all think that horse was the greatest too! that's why I take a lot of comments on here with a pinch of salt judging by what I've seen.

Presenter A mentions "This could be Big Bucks biggest test" we here that every year, you'd probably believe it was his biggest test if you heard it enough and we do. What would happen if The Morning Line showed highlight reels of 6 Claimers who had won by 8L then said "This looks Big Bucks biggest test" you'd probably believe it.

I'd personally question the thoughts of our Racing fans, are they really self thinkers? or are they walking products of media influence - I haven't come across many that can self analyze with rationale, not just on here but in general and it's a real shame.

The trendy thing to do is side by a horse influenced through monetry gains and use that horse in verbal battles against people, these are like Type ll error fans and it wouldn't do any harm to take yourself out of the straight jacket once in a while and remove the goggles, walk out into the fresh air and try have a debate looking at both sides of the argument and coming to a logical conclusion.

To be quite frank, the evidence I have given is quite compelling but those Type 2 II fans are unable to comprehend or debate rationally which makes this thread pointless if the opinions are all based on false pretence, lack of emperical research and evidence.

I await the response from the insignificant, those like OTB who are only capable of stiring the broth, factory workers who keep the activity of the forum alive rather than any intellectual input
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Mr Savage,

This is an interesting post. I raised an eyebrow and then read it again.

I intend to answer it, but I would like some time. I shall return.
 
Well I don't think Big Bucks is doing the staying hurdling divison any good by running in every race available.

Personally, it would be better for the sport if races like yesterday were contested by all of the potential horses to challenge Big Bucks at Cheltenham because I think we'd see greater field sizes, quality and possibly horses that stay over the hurdling code.

Would have been nice to see Big Bucks swerve yesterdays race, imagine Grand Crus, Restless Harry, Dynaste, Time For Rupert, Duke De Rengiere, Punchestowns lining up for yesterdays race.

What is the Stewart family trying to prove picking up £41k for yesterdays success? it's like the division is a fighter down on his knees but you keep punching him into submission. The best thing they could do is let the divison recover a bit, let the beaten man get to his feet and stand, gather his composure and prepare for another day.

Just let the divison gather some momentum, get some solid form lines and confidence from trainers, I'm sure Big Bucks would earn more respect for winning 7 strong Group 1s than winning 14 half glass full glorified handicaps!?

Do you not agree?
 
And what do you propose Big Buck's does in the meantime? Sits in his box, twiddling his hooves? It isn't up to the Big Buck's connections to allow other horses to develop their potential, it's up to everyone else to find horses that are capable of beating him and get them in the right place, at the right time, in the right condition to do so.
 
Bruce_Savage said:
I'm sure Big Bucks would earn more respect for winning 7 strong Group 1s than winning 14 half glass full glorified handicaps!?
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But the Long Walk is a Grade 1 (note NH races are not Group) and just about the best Grade 1 possible to run in outside the Festival for staying hurdlers... so what are you saying?... that Big Bucks should only run in the World Hurdle... Apologies if I don't reply on this further. It's fine to be contentious... but stupidity is a waste of everyone's time.
 
Not quite sure you understand my point Steve.

It may have been a long time since some of you thought outside the box, so I'm prepared to give some slack with some of you.

I am not prepared to write out my thoughts again, untill someone can come with a logical argument I won't bother replying back with anything constructive.
 
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rorydelargy said:
No change there then.
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13 of your last 20 posts are in reference to me, I would start to look at yourself in terms of construct.

You rarely reach above the level of managing to post more than a few sentances, never open your mind to both sides of the argument before posting and coming into things with a preconcieved idea & opinion before compressing the disucssion.

Not really sure why you stroll around here with such arrogance and swarve, maybe because you're on Radio you feel your opinion is greater than others and you're not required to put any mental thought or input into your posts given your status off the message board.

Interesting approach, some characters on here! but that's what makes it and interesting place although I am trying to get more out of people, try get them out of that factory setting and blossom into thought provoking posters and creating entrepreneurial tendancies - If this mesage board was a colour pallet it would be black & white.

The insults and drab humour is tiresom at best, but it's never to late to change.
 
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Bruce_Savage said:
Not quite sure you understand my point Steve.

It may have been a long time since some of you thought outside the box, so I'm prepared to give some slack with some of you.

I am not prepared to write out my thoughts again, untill someone can come with a logical argument I won't bother replying back with anything constructive.
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Its not really thinking out the box spotting that the staying hurdle crowd don't contain many top notchers at one time..then using the worst horse beaten in to 2nd by a horse to give it a low rating

thats just running a horse down for the sake of it
 
Bruce_Savage said:
There is no evidence to back this statement up.

He has beaten Five Dream 8 Lengths, this is a horse who has won 5 times in 34 starts, two of those were Class 4 & Class 3 Novice chases and hasn't won since 24th October 2009.

I'm trying my hardest to give Big Bucks all the credit he deserves, but I can't make statements based on no evidence.
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What else is there to say about champion staying hurdler Big Buck's?
He stretched his unbeaten run over timber in Britain to 14 with perhaps his most impressive success to date in winning a third Long Walk Hurdle at the weekend, surpassing the legendary Bula's record in the process.
His 14 consecutive wins started on 01/01/09 in a 3m Class 2 h,cap hurdle where he beat Don’t Push It 2L carrying 16lb more – Don’t Push It won the John Smiths h’cap 2 races later and The Grand National off 153 the following year. My Rating 166+
2nd & 3rd wins of sequence – He beat Punchestowns 4L receiving 8lb , they then met at level weights in The 2009 World Hurdle where Big Bucks confirmed his superiority over that horse at level weights. Punchestowns went on to win a grade 2 and a grade 1 chase on his next two starts. My Rating 168+ & 173+
4th win of sequence – Big Bucks won Grade 2 John Smiths Hurdle beating Mighty Man 3L, carrying 8lb more – Mighty Man had won this race the year before rated 165 – Mighty Man also finished 2nd to Inglis Drever in the 2007 World Hurdle btn under 1L – Inglis Drever won 3 World Hurdles. My Rating 177+
5th win of sequence Big Bucks won Class1 Long Distance Hurdle beating Lough Derg 7L off level weights hard held. Lough Derg was so consistent they’ve named The Lough Derg Long Walk Hurdle after him. My Rating 174+
6th win of sequence – beating Karabak and Diamond Harry again hard held – Karabak went on to win the Grade 2 Relkeel Hurdle and Diamond Harry went on to win 3 of his next 5 including a Grade 2 Novice Chase and the Hennessy. My Rating 174+
7th win of sequence – Big Bucks wins his 2nd World Hurdle beating Time For Rupert 3L + again not coming out of cruise control – Time For Rupert has won 3 of his next 6 races all class 2 Novice Chases. My Rating 174 + (although he probably didn’t run to 166 – it was a stroll for him)
8th win of sequence – Big Bucks wins the Grade 1 Liverpool Hurdle – It’s about this stage he’s frightened off the opposition and it’s probably the poorest field he has faced and wins in a canter. It’s also a good time to point out that most of his decent opposition up to this point went on to contest Novice Chases and as for any of his beaten opponents going on to win a grade 1 hurdle, this was not possible as Big Bucks was contesting and winning them.
I’ve run out of time to finish this but will attempt to do so if I can find the time – but imo the only time he was truely tested was off level weights against Punchestowns in his first World Hurdle win. The reasons he’s not been tested since, again imo is because he’s that good and until another long distance hurdler comes along that is capable of running 175 to 180 he won’t be tested. A true great and the best 3m hurdler we have ever seen.
 
Zaidpour is shaping into a decent enough candidate also. As low as 14/1 and as big as 25/1.
 
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