1000 Guineas

Desert Orchid said:
Speaking of first and second strings, should we read anything into Richard Hills's riding Ghanaati? Did he have a free choice?
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I can't believe how bad my luck's been this weekend. Following yesterday's wipeout I decided to think out the box a wee bit here and back Ghanaati each way but didn't have anything in my account with the best-price bookie and decided against depositing more just for the sake of one more illogical bet. Instead, I checked the place-only market and took 7/2 (trimmed from 4/1 while the bet was being processed!) Ghanaati.

Lovely winner, though.

Surprised to see Lahaleeb first off the bit and very early in the race. I'm just wondering if the fast times recorded at Newmarket and Newbury a couple of weeks ago have taken their toll on the horses. Only Super Sleuth, which I was sure Lahaleeb would comfortably take care of, has run well.
 
Think Cuis Ghaire's run well DO - while nothing came from off the pace pulling the way she did I don't think that was too bad a run to be second in a Guineas.
 
EC1 said:
pity you didn't mention that before the race when I were encouraging views on RV !!!
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I highlighted on more than one occasion that R View was not working well, but people chose to believe what they read in the press.
 
i checked this thread and can't see owt Flame..if its on another thread then I apologise..with doubts I already had about it winning I would have loved to have had that info at hand

they were a recorded interview with Gosden on C4 before the race and you could tell he didn't really care about this race...said summat about not putting everthing into winning one race this early...looks like he does go easy on his fillies in spring
 
I really wanted Serious Attitude to win, but happy for Giant's Causeway to get the winner too. And most fascinated by the concept that altho his brother does not use Coolmore sires, Hamdan clearly does, this one is a homebred. Lovely breeding. :)
 
You'd fancy her to get 10f no problem on that breeding wouldn't you? Maybe even the Oaks trip?
 
I noticed that too, Isinglass! Smashing filly with a great outlook and stunning pedigree.

Interesting, isn't it, that top-class breeding has prevailed in our first two Classic, not quite the same in the US!
 
EC1 wrote:

i checked this thread and can't see owt Flame..if its on another thread then I apologise..with doubts I already had about it winning I would have loved to have had that info at hand
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EC1, Flame mentioned RV's indifferent work on 27th April on the Rainbow View thread. Still didn't stop me from putting her in all three of my TTF lines. Must keep the faith though - there's a long season ahead. Though the long range forecasts say that it will be a barbecue summer - not good news for horses that don't go well on firm. RV, Delegator and Casual Conquest beware. Or go to France where at least they never say the ground is firm!
 
And most fascinated by the concept that altho his brother does not use Coolmore sires, Hamdan clearly does, this one is a homebred. Lovely breeding
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the godolphin 2 year old in the next race is by giants causewway

I wonder how the owner of rainbow quest feels now about routing fantasia to the french guineas

the winner though a nice filly

would think the french oaks a better bet for the winner or rainbow view/fantasia than the uk edition
 
prince regent said:
the godolphin 2 year old in the next race is by giants causewway

I wonder how the owner of rainbow quest feels now about routing fantasia to the french guineas
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I had not noticed that, but you are of course correct! Izaaj is by Giant's Causeway as well. There seems to be no sales data for it either so perhaps a private sale by breeder to Godolphin. They appear prepared to buy horses by Coolmore sires, (as in New Approach) but not send their own mares to them.

I don't think Fantasia would have liked the ground today at all so probbaly not run any better than Rainbow View did. Still ..... you never know with horse racing do you? :lol:
 
I think Izaaj was part of the purchase of one of the major studs around the world...just came with the package so I would not read too much into that.
 
Winner did it impressively and, given that she could easily be mistaken for a colt, you'd think she'd be the type to go on improving throughout the year.

Rainbow View looked distinctly uncomfortable on the ground from before three furlongs out, noticeably changing her legs a number of times. I certainly wouldn't be making the assumption that the others had "improved past her" on this evidence alone; if they have, we're surely looking at one of the most impressive crops of 3yo fillies in a long time.
 
The going played a big part in the result. It was pretty fast today, moreso than yesterday I'd say.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but the going didn't suit RV's action at all, whereas the winner was coming off the all-weather for her first run on turf... that is surely a first for a European Classic.

I agree with trackside. I wouldn't worry about the favourite training on, on better ground she'll be much more effective.
 
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The Godolphin 2yo in the last is a Stonerside bred so was bought as part of the package late last year.

Nothing's changed and Sheikh Mo still isn't using Coolmore stallions. However Sheikh Rashid (I believe he's Sheikh Mo's son) and proprietor of Zabeel Racing International had a runner trained by Todd Pletcher (a Coolmore trainer - Munnings, Dunkirk etc.) on the Derby undercard last night.
 
trackside528 said:
I certainly wouldn't be making the assumption that the others had "improved past her" on this evidence alone; if they have, we're surely looking at one of the most impressive crops of 3yo fillies in a long time.
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Would totally disagree Track

they wouldn't have to be the most impressive crop at all..


.the fact is that a mature 2yo just doesn't make the average improvement from 2 to 3..hence when a mature 2yo runs at 3 against 3yos that have made that improvement ..its then left behind...nothing to do with the rest being exceptional at all.

something like this

A 2yo at end of September at 8f is 28 lbs shy of full maturity..by the time May comes round that average 2yo..now 3 of course... will be 12lbs shy of maturity. So the average 2yo improves 16 lbs over the winter.

If we say that Rainbow View was a 117 horse last September..you must then knock the WFA off that figure as its a mature figure..ie if 2yo ran against a 4yo at a mile then it would receive 28 lbs at that point in time...so RV in real terms was only rated 117 minus 28 = 89 last September.

So you have an 89 horse in real terms that may not improve at all over winter if she was a mature 2yo..or maybe just 5 or 10lbs...so by the time that May comes around RV could now just be a 95/100 horse at best....obviously all 3yo's still have another 12 lb to go to be fully mature..so at very best at the end of her 3yo career RV would be rated 112...so....it wouldn't really need an exceptional crop after all really would it?...there will be many 3yo's at the end of this season rated above 112 I reckon.

there is no such thing as not training on..just that some horses mature more quickly than others
 
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EC1 said:
there is no such thing as not training on..just that some horses mature more quickly than others
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Loads of horses don't train on...they not only stand still on their two year old form but they regress as well...mentally as much as anything.
 
the term isn't used in that way though is it?..its used when a mature 2yo stands still and others pass it

the term is only ever used in context of 2-3 years...which is why it is a misnomer

yes..loads of horses have ups and downs in performance...between 3 and 4..in fact any age...but the term ..not trained on.. purely gets aimed at 2yo-3yo..which is why its a nonsense statement used in that context.
 
EC1 said:
the term is only ever used in context of 2-3 years...
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No it's not. You will hear trainers talking about older horses training on - ie training on from one season to the next, after a break.

I agree with Gal - there are plenty of horses that don't train on from one season to the next, for whatever reason.
 
I agree with Gal - there are plenty of horses that don't train on from one season to the next, for whatever reason.

you missed the point

the only time punters/messageboad folk talk about it is with 2yo's

I'm talking about people confusing ...a mature 2yo who has reached his early 3yo level...with some sort of backward step...which isn't the case.

I don't recall one punter mentioning "training on" about any other age group.

its the suggestion that a 2yo has gone backwards that is the misnomer..when in fact they have stood still for a period of months
 
Returning to Ghanaati's breeding, a 3 yr old in 2009 is the result of a mating in 2005, the Al Maktoums-Coolmore fued didn't start until later in 2005.
 
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