2 Mile Chasers 20/21

Master Minded - Highest OR 186 (April '08 - April '09); top RPR 186 (once, next best 181 once, then 176 and lower). Burst on to the scene in the '08 Game Spirit beating the 169-rated Voy Por Ustedes 5L in receipt of 6lbs. But smashed that performance out of the park when taking the QM from the same horse by no fewer than 19L, earning a Topspeed figure of 185. I wouldn't mind knowing how many horses in the history of Topspeed have been in that ballpark. Not many, I'll guarantee. However, he only got 169 for beating the now-162-rated Well Chief the following year with horses rated 157 and 146 close behind.

So, two ultra-high-class performances (181 at Ascot in Jan '09) in the space of ten months and a number of very respectable mid-170s performances through to November 2011 put him in the upper echelons of all-time 2-milers, and maybe just that monstrous QM performance would get him alongside Altior.

That's one duel on the outcome of which I wouldn't want my life to depend.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Moscow Flyer - top OR 180, top RPR 182 ('05 QM, when beating the mighty Well Chief fully two lengths, earning him both those ratings. He followed it up with an easy 14lbs beating of the 158-rated Le Roi Miguel (aka 'the wonder horse') but never got near that RPR 182 again. I remember at the time wondering if the 2-milers were generally over-rated during that era with Azertyuiop et al.

As I've been typing that paragraph, it has occurred to me that I might have the books for that era in a box in the loft. I'll try and have a look before it gets dark.

So for the time being, I would argue that Moscow wouldn't unduly trouble Altior.
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Sacreligde. Moscow would have served Altior his hoop with a ribbon on. Go and stand in the corner, and have a think about what you've done.

The danger here is in using ORs and RPRs as a cast-iron measure of achievement from which to draw conclusions. Clearly they have some merit (the former more than the latter), but they aren't gospel and are certainly open to challenge.

I suppose you have to start from somewhere, but the problem is it might lead you to making outlandish and highly-slanderous statements about Moscow not unduly troubling Altior, which is self-evidently the product of an addled-mind, DO! :lol:
 
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Sprinter Sacre (*swoons in adoration like the extras in Blazing Saddles doffing their stetsons in homage to Randolph Scott*) - highest OR 188 from April to December '13; top RPR 190 Cheltenham and April '13.

(Pauses to genuflect)

Unextended to follow up at Punchestown that season but never the same again, putting up similar performance levels as Master Minded, so still top class but just not as good as at his peak.

I wonder if Altior might now be going through what Sprinter and Master Minded went through. Maybe they can just peak for so long and then settle at a very high level but below that peak yet still good enough to be competitive against mere mortals.

(A bit like myself when I beat a chess computer at Grand Master Level but couldn't get anywhere near repeating the feat so I gave up, but that's a story for another day.)
 
Desert Orchid said:
Master Minded - Highest OR 186 (April '08 - April '09); top RPR 186 (once, next best 181 once, then 176 and lower). Burst on to the scene in the '08 Game Spirit beating the 169-rated Voy Por Ustedes 5L in receipt of 6lbs. But smashed that performance out of the park when taking the QM from the same horse by no fewer than 19L, earning a Topspeed figure of 185. I wouldn't mind knowing how many horses in the history of Topspeed have been in that ballpark. Not many, I'll guarantee. However, he only got 169 for beating the now-162-rated Well Chief the following year with horses rated 157 and 146 close behind.

So, two ultra-high-class performances (181 at Ascot in Jan '09) in the space of ten months and a number of very respectable mid-170s performances through to November 2011 put him in the upper echelons of all-time 2-milers, and maybe just that monstrous QM performance would get him alongside Altior.

That's one duel on the outcome of which I wouldn't want my life to depend.
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I repudiate the assertion that beating VPU by 19L amounts to anything much at all. He is one of the worst Champion Chasers in living memory, and only won that race because he copped a 5lb allowance. Massively over-rated by practically every agency on the block, and the error was compounded with Master Minded, when he - quite rightly - waltzed past a field that would have been beaten two fences in the 2014 Tingle Creek.

Harumph!

:lol:
 
Grasshopper said:
I repudiate the assertion that beating VPU by 19L amounts to anything much at all. He is one of the worst Champion Chasers in living memory, and only won that race because he copped a 5lb allowance. Massively over-rated by practically every agency on the block, and the error was compounded with Master Minded, when he - quite rightly - waltzed past a field that would have been beaten two fences in the 2014 Tingle Creek.

Harumph!

:lol:
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Voy Por Ustedes Reversed the form a Fortnite later at Liverpool!
 
Grasshopper said:
I suppose you have to start from somewhere, but the problem is it might lead you to making outlandish and highly-slanderous statements about Moscow not unduly troubling Altior, which is self-evidently the product of an addled-mind, DO! :lol:
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Age does not come alone, young Grasshopper.

:lol:
 
Don't reckon MM was ever going to win a yard over 2m.

Correction to previous missive. VPU was the worst 'Arkle' winner in recent memory, copping the 5lbs allowance.

Any Championship race over 2m in which Tamarindbleu is a 7/2 shot, tells you all you need to know about the strength of it.
 
Mmm, perhaps I go back a bit longer than you guys but maybe Flyingbolt would have put them all to the sword.
 
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Marb said:
Altior had a racecourse gallop today and is on track for the Tingle Creek.

Other interesting comments from Henderson were that Champ may go to Ireland for the big chase over there at Christmas, rather than run in the King George.
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Hendo has entered Champ in the King George just in case weather or covid issues prevent him going to Ireland. The intention is firmly to go to Ireland.
 
Maruco said:
Hendo has entered Champ in the King George just in case weather or covid issues prevent him going to Ireland. The intention is firmly to go to Ireland.
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I'll believe this when I see Champ heading to the post at Leopardstown on 26th December, and not before.
 
The last NH book I can find in the loft is for the '08-'09 season.

Moscow Flyer's highest figure on my ratings is 185, so pretty special and maybe good enough to get Altior off the bit :p
 
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